D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

Let's recast this a bit: when I run Stonetop, we roll the dice because we are doing something interesting, there's an obstacle of some sort or the rules demand it, and we want to see if our goals are going to be achieved. The triggers by which the rules of the game say to roll the dice are generally gated behind the player saying interesting fiction, in response to the GM saying interesting fiction, to get to an interesting outcome.
This wasn't to me but,

IMO, usually the most interesting outcomes aren't the most plausible outcomes. Thus, I think there's some inherent tension between a desire for interesting outcomes and a desire for plausible outcomes.
 

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That’s all fine. My point is not that anyone has to like this approach… it was that your characterization of it was inaccurate. There’s no reason that a fail forward approach must include things that make sense.
Maybe, but I really think it should. I don't want result that don't make sense.
A) I was trying to communicate how the game I run the most tries to address those concerns/points you raised, such that it avoids situations where "nothing much happens" is really ever on the table/a likely thing when dice are picked up.

B) I honestly don't think it's implausible to assign interesting things connected to the trigger to both sides of a dice roll in just about any game. You may find it uninteresting or non-required, but I've done it in D&D. Worked fine. Followed from the fiction declared by players and established by the group. We don't have the concept of Hard Moves or a wider mechanical apparatus there, so I just framed rolls as conflicts with stakes and potential downsides and we tossed the dice.

Now, obviously, that's drifting 5e away from the sort of "resolve a task" core design and isn't to everybody's taste - by far. I just don't see "plausibility" as entering the conversation, so much as "I don't vibe with that."
So it is One true wayism. You think everyone should find these things plausible because you do. Do I have that right?
 



Maybe, but I really think it should. I don't want result that don't make sense.

My bad… I left out the word “don’t” in the last sentence there. Changed the meaning from what I intended pretty drastically! I’ve edited the original comment accordingly.

So it is One true wayism. You think everyone should find these things plausible because you do. Do I have that right?

I think you’ve misread what he meant.
 


Is there a fail-forward on that roll too? Does it matter that the whole thing's retroactive based on the scenario you described?

I don’t know, it depends on the game, I suppose.

I was imagining 5e D&D… in which case I’d likely just have the player make a skill check to see what they found during the trip.

Time’s mutable in an RPG. Things like that are an easy fix. The kind I imagine most of us have done in a more casual way.

Usually it’d be something like “Ah crap… I meant to buy more arrows when we were in town… do you mind if I spend the money and add some arrows now?”

I mean, I expect that kind of thing happens in most peoples’ games at some point. And it works just fine without reality collapsing or anything. There’s no reason you can’t simply add it to the tools at your disposal as GM.
 

Nope! He isn't the most boring superhero ever. He is, in fact, the most popular superhero ever. So clearly, he can't be "the most boring superhero ever" if that many people are into it. Note, this is not saying he is the best, nor that popularity indicates anything other than popularity. But it is a perfectly valid argument to appeal to popularity to counter the claim that something is the most boring thing ever.

The problem is that half his writers think that the way to write him is that he has to either (a) fight other supers in direct combat (which he will always win. and which is thus boring) or (b) he will be """challenged""" by asking if he'll choose to do the right thing in a situation where he could do a very very bad thing (which he will never do, and which is thus boring).

It's actually quite simple to write stories for Superman that are frequently very interesting; you literally only need to do one of three things (there may be other options, these are just reliable ones):
(1) Put him in a situation where his moral compass tells him to do something that his allies outright oppose; no matter whether Supes or his allies are the PoV characters, you've instantly got an interesting conflict by doing this, so long as you avoid the lame stupid version of "disagreement" where it only arises from a misheard conversation or similar BS
(2) As noted above, put him in a situation where innocent bystanders and collateral damage are the concern; that way, instead of the boring and instantly-answered "can Superman fight Fluffy the Terrible???", we have the unknown and variable "can Superman protect these people AND fight Fluffy the Terrible?", because even if Superman is indestructible, humans aren't
or (3) challenge him with forces or issues that aren't vulnerable to being punched, superspeed-flummoxed, heat-vision'd, freeze-breath'd, or whatever other powers Superman has in a given context; e.g., a drug problem, or political corruption in the legitimate politics of some context, or, I dunno, a super-powerful ultra-genius businessman getting up to illegal shenanigans, where shutting down one operation does nothing to the overall conflict

You can't write superman the way you'd write Spider-Man or Batman or Daredevil or the like. He isn't like those superheroes, and the kinds of conflicts that would trip them up simply bounce off his bulletproof chest. That doesn't mean he's boring; he's only boring if you force him into stories where he doesn't fit.


Superman also fails. Can you believe it? He fails!

My favorite version, the DC Animated Universe version (voiced wonderfully by Tim Daly), is a heavily flawed paragon hero. He doesn't trust other people to get things done because he's keenly aware that he is nearly invulnerable and they aren't (and he knows how much more powerful he is than them). Lex Luthor knows how to push his buttons almost flawlessly, and even though Superman is almost always right to distrust Lex, it's hard for him to actually combat what Lex does.

Superman isn't perfect. That's the thing here. He's not. The best versions of him are in fact deeply flawed men. They're just deeply flawed men with a genuine commitment to doing the right things for the right reasons, and a crapload of power--the power to act as they think right, even if the world tells them they're wrong...and sometimes, they are. Just like adventurers, once they've got some adventures under their belt.


But...that's...still a thing??

Just because you got to the top of the cliff doesn't mean your friend is suddenly safe! You've just gotten there in time to--possibly--do something.

I just...I don't understand. Why are you so committed to interpreting everything in the worst, most harmful, most antagonistic light? Why is it you can't give even one charitable interpretation?
Because not everyone wants die rolls to work the way you want them to. And that should be ok.
 


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