Level Up (A5E) Let's make Dangerous Strikes good on a Fighter

[Anonymous3]

I had a little dig on the forums to find input for Dangerous Strikes and on the surface it doesn't appear promising.
As @Stalker0 points out a few years ago:

"Dangerous Strikes - As cool as this looks, at the end of the day a small increase in your crit range for the round is just not worth exertion....there are better ways to spend your resources. What's worse, the Berserker, the one class that miiiiiiight consider this because of furious critical....can't take it. This maneuver should have been a stance to be worthwhile."

I tend to agree with this statement. @Kinematics also points out that it might be better on the Berserker given the secondary benefits they get from Furious Critical so using a feat to take this would have a greater impact than other classes might. This was immediately taken up by the Berserker at our table and has made a large impact on fights already.

What about on a Fighter? Spending one exertion on the chance of getting a critical hit seems like a poor decision. Using Twist the Blade would be a better investment of exertion because there is no chance involved. It also doesn't seem to work well with Maneuver Specialization because it costs only 1 exertion and has no saving throw so you don't benefit fully from the feature.

What if we ignore all this and instead spend an ASI to gain access to the Surgical Combatant (as a Berserker would). We then combine it with Technical Fighting and Maneuver Specialization to gain additional damage whenever you use Dangerous Strikes. For the cost of a feat we now have a 0 zero exertion maneuver that adds 4 additional damage to every attack. If we spent the ASI on Strength we'd have a better chance to hit but only net +1 damage.

Thoughts?

 

[Morrus]

I'd like to try changing DS so it doesn't take an action and you can choose to spend an exertion after an attack roll to increase your crit range, turning a non-crit into a crit. So you'd use it almost like a reaction (but not costing your reaction) when you missed a crit by 1 point. Then again I suppose it's basically Twist the Blade at that point. I am of agreement that it's way too weak as it is.

 

[Anonymous3]

That sounds like a Divine Smite type maneuver.

 

[lichmaster]

Technical fighting and Maneuver Specialization make this maneuver OK, but as it stands I agree that it is a bit underwhelming.
Turning it into a stance may be too good though: for the cost of 1 exertion you increase crit range by 1 for the rest of the day (would be a no brainer in that case).

What if it stayed an action but it increased crit range to 18-20? This way there's still a bit of synergy potential with other maneuvers or vicious weapons without it becoming too good.
That would mean (assuming a roll of 18 also results in a hit):
15% crit chance without other synergies, single attack, no advantage (vs 10% vanilla)
27,75% crit chance without other synergies, single attack, advantage (vs 19% vanilla)

So this would actually become "dangerous", albeit situationally. Definitely something worth using when benefiting form advantage (and even better when using Extra attack and/or two weapon fighting)

 

[Anonymous3]

Could you compare this to another ASI/feat choice where the outcome is better?
I thought of the really strong Powerful Attacker feat as a comparison. If I had to choose, I would pick my Dangerous Attack setup instead of this feat because it can be used on ranged and melee attacks. This makes it a very versatile choice.

Additionally, we now can actually use the Brute subclass feature in combination because we have available exertion for damage. The Brute's feature is thematically great but mechanically you almost never have available exertion to use it - at least in Tier 1 and 2 of play. You now have a little more freedom to use other knacks or maneuvers.

 

[lichmaster]

Not sure what is the question.

Also, not sure if it's related to what you're saying, but I'm really not a fan of ASI. They're the most boring choice, albeit often the most effective. If anything IMO they set the bar for feats: if anyone preferred an ASI over a given feat, the feat is not good enough.

 

[Anonymous3]

Not sure what is the question.

Also, not sure if it's related to what you're saying, but I'm really not a fan of ASI. They're the most boring choice, albeit often the most effective. If anything IMO they set the bar for feats: if anyone preferred an ASI over a given feat, the feat is not good enough.

Sorry it's not clear. The setup to make Dangerous Strikes good requires a feat. At zero exertion cost and applying 4 damage you've stated it is "OK". I'm happy with that.

What I am asking is your perspective on how you came to that conclusion. I'm interested in what you're comparing it to.

EDIT: Agreed on ASI - feats are way more fun.

 

[Stalker0]

Turning it into a stance may be too good though: for the cost of 1 exertion you increase crit range by 1 for the rest of the day (would be a no brainer in that case).

I mean....would it?

At the end of the day crit range is not actually all that great to increase your damage, and your giving up all of the other various stances you could have active instead. That's a big oppurtunity cost. It would certainly be good, but OP.....eh I doubt it.

 

[Stalker0]

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Level Up (A5E) Thread 'Manuevers (1st level) - Winners and Losers'

Nov 30, 2021

Alright, another look under the hood to see what looks good and what could use some work.

I'm doing 1st level manuevers in this round because I have a new campaign starting with 3rd level characters, so as I've helped my players look at character ideas, I've done a lot of review of the 1st level manuevers and gotten some initial reaction feedback from my players. One of the things you'll note, I am extremely stingy when it comes to exertion. If something costs 2 exertion, it better be a HELL of a maneuver

Winners

Cleaving Swings - Two exertion maneuvers have to really earn their...

• Stalker0
• Replies: 21
• Forum: Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

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Level Up (A5E) Thread 'Maneuvers (2nd and 3rd level) - Winners and Losers'

Dec 14, 2021

Time to dig in to the 2nd and 3rd tier maneuvers.

2nd Tier

Spoiler

Winners
Shrug it Off - They ability to knock off both fear and stuns is very solid depends on the kind of monsters the DM likes to use. This can be very powerful.

Parrying Counter - A combination of both AC boost and the chance of getting in an extra attack, this one is just solid.

Twist the Blade - Now THIS is a crit maneuver! What makes it so great is its guaranteed to work when you activate it. Its also one of those I think a lot of players will love. They will roll the die, see they were so close to a crit...

• Stalker0
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

• 

S

Level Up (A5E) Thread 'Maneuvers (4th and 5th Tier) - Winners and Losers'

Dec 14, 2021

Alright, lets look at the biggest, baddest maneuvers. Tier 4 and 5 here we come!

Tier 4

Spoiler

Winners
Stand Tell Stance - For the "Adamant Mountain Master" this is a very solid power boost, basically making all of your core maneuvers better.

Wild Swing - Extra attacks at 1 exertion now, alright!

Spinning Parry - This feels like a solid upgrade in the defense department. I can combine the idea of making an attack miss and stunning a target (denying it other attacks for even more defense).

First Blood - Probably one of the few 3 exertion maneuver I whole heartedly offer a...

• Stalker0
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

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You took me down memory lane with this one

I'm curious how well my ratings have held up over the years of play that A5e has now had.

 

[lichmaster]

At the end of the day crit range is not actually all that great to increase your damage, and your giving up all of the other various stances you could have active instead. That's a big oppurtunity cost. It would certainly be good, but OP.....eh I doubt it.

DPS is not everything. Spike damage IMO is a thing on its own, as well as "combo potential".

First off, you can improve crit chance to 18-20 using Dangerous strikes as a stance by using a vicious weapon (like a 60gp elven thinblade, if available). For the cost of 1 exertion per day, with a simple 1st degree maneuver.

Give this to anyone that can make 2+ attacks per round (extra attack, dual wielding, polearm mastery etc) and chances to score at least 1 crit per round become significant.

A berserker would massively benefit from Dangerous Strikes as a maneuver: for 1 exertion, for the entire day will have a better chance of proccing furious criticals (one of the main features of the class).

As a Herald, better crit chances means better chances of proccing a divine smite crit, for massive damage potential. Same for a rogue.

As a fighter you can also have 2 stances simultaneously, and activate them with the same bonus action, at no exertion cost, through the use of Battle ready. Pair Dangerous Strikes (as a stance) with Perfect Edge (another stance) and you get "permanent" 17-20 crit range. Pair it with Legion Stance, and everytime you crit, an ally will also attack as a reaction. Etc.

Maybe what's non intuitive is how quickly chances of scoring at least 1 crit per round increase if you have advantage (not that hard) and can make more than 1 apr. With 19-20 crit and 2 apr (eg dual wielding) there's 34.39% chance of crit per round (with advantage on both attacks) or 19% with no advantage. This means with advantage 1 crit per fight, on average, at no additional cost, starting from level 1 (or 2 because most classes don't get maneuvers at level 1).