Level Up (A5E) Let's make Dangerous Strikes good on a Fighter

[lichmaster]

You took me down memory lane with this one

I'm curious how well my ratings have held up over the years of play that A5e has now had.

I'm gonna re-read those treads! Maybe we could revisit them!

 

[lichmaster]

Sorry it's not clear. The setup to make Dangerous Strikes good requires a feat. At zero exertion cost and applying 4 damage you've stated it is "OK". I'm happy with that.

What I am asking is your perspective on how you came to that conclusion. I'm interested in what you're comparing it to.

ATM, mostly gut feeling (an ASI in str would give just +1 damage per attack and +1 to hit, this gives +4 damage per attack and no to hit bonus).

If I have time this weekend I'll try to analyse more quantitatively if the gut feeling is right.

Edit: also see what I wrote about chances to score at least 1 crit per round as you have more attacks and eventually advantage.

 

[Distracted DM]

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Level Up (A5E) Thread 'Manuevers (1st level) - Winners and Losers'

Nov 30, 2021

Alright, another look under the hood to see what looks good and what could use some work.

I'm doing 1st level manuevers in this round because I have a new campaign starting with 3rd level characters, so as I've helped my players look at character ideas, I've done a lot of review of the 1st level manuevers and gotten some initial reaction feedback from my players. One of the things you'll note, I am extremely stingy when it comes to exertion. If something costs 2 exertion, it better be a HELL of a maneuver

Winners

Cleaving Swings - Two exertion maneuvers have to really earn their...

• Stalker0
• Replies: 21
• Forum: Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

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Level Up (A5E) Thread 'Maneuvers (2nd and 3rd level) - Winners and Losers'

Dec 14, 2021

Time to dig in to the 2nd and 3rd tier maneuvers.

2nd Tier

Spoiler

Winners
Shrug it Off - They ability to knock off both fear and stuns is very solid depends on the kind of monsters the DM likes to use. This can be very powerful.

Parrying Counter - A combination of both AC boost and the chance of getting in an extra attack, this one is just solid.

Twist the Blade - Now THIS is a crit maneuver! What makes it so great is its guaranteed to work when you activate it. Its also one of those I think a lot of players will love. They will roll the die, see they were so close to a crit...

• Stalker0
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

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Level Up (A5E) Thread 'Maneuvers (4th and 5th Tier) - Winners and Losers'

Dec 14, 2021

Alright, lets look at the biggest, baddest maneuvers. Tier 4 and 5 here we come!

Tier 4

Spoiler

Winners
Stand Tell Stance - For the "Adamant Mountain Master" this is a very solid power boost, basically making all of your core maneuvers better.

Wild Swing - Extra attacks at 1 exertion now, alright!

Spinning Parry - This feels like a solid upgrade in the defense department. I can combine the idea of making an attack miss and stunning a target (denying it other attacks for even more defense).

First Blood - Probably one of the few 3 exertion maneuver I whole heartedly offer a...

• Stalker0
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

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You took me down memory lane with this one

I'm curious how well my ratings have held up over the years of play that A5e has now had.

I don't see Stunning Assault or Gaze of Conviction on those lists! Am I looking in the wrong place or did they just not touch your lists intentionally?

 

[Anonymous3]

I'm curious how well my ratings have held up over the years of play that A5e has now had.

These lists have been pretty good for our table. Your input gave me a better way to evaluate what is good or not. I think it is harder when you're trying put onto a build which is what I am trying to do here with Dangerous Strikes.

Can we make it good and not necessarily rework the maneuver? Instead we could find the builds that it is good for. I don't it's possible to make every spell/feature/ability equivalent. It's their combination in the class or with a build that can make them good.

 

[Anonymous3]

I don't see Stunning Assault or Gaze of Conviction on those lists! Am I looking in the wrong place or did they just not touch your lists intentionally?

@Stalker0 praises Stunning Assault when looking for the best Maneuver Specialization choice. Personally, I think on paper Stunning Assault is really good but the exertion cost keeps it in check - the condition is the problem because there aren't many ways to remove the condition. I didn't realise how good Gaze of Conviction was until you explained it in a different thread - amazing maneuver.

 

[Anonymous3]

For a Fighter build I think Dangerous Strikes has a place for a "switch hitter". To make that work we need available exertion for maneuvers that provide mobility and help with removing Opportunity Attacks.

Off the top of my head:

• Start with "my build" - zero cost Dangerous Strikes; +4 damage on attacks
• Dual wield weapons - parrying weapons preferred (dueling daggers; bastard sword)
• Swift Stance - extra movement. Might not be required.
• Extreme Leap - love this for engagement/disengagement but it costs 1 exertion for attack combos.
• Reactions can be used to keep yourself in the battle: Shrug It Off; Redirect
• Bonus actions: mostly for attacks but you could Catch Your Breath to keep in the fight especially after disengagement (Redirect is also handy here).

Extras:

• Take Crossbow Expertise and Dual-wielding Expert. You can go without these but it costs attacks.
• Take Divine Smite if you can take Herald levels. Smite can be used at range.
• Duelist Archetype Fighter Panache nets you some reduced costs for Mirror’s Glint, Mist and Shade, or Rapid Current combat traditions. Really nice on classes that benefit from Charisma bonuses anyway.

This is mostly possible within Tier 2 play - 1-3 feat cost.

Do you guys think this makes Dangerous Strikes good?

 

[Tessarael]

The value of Dangerous Strikes depends heavily on your build. If you're stacking a bunch of extra non-dice damage modifiers, it's effectiveness can also depend on whether your virtual table top system supports it. Specifically, Fantasy Grounds does not do so out of the box, only doubling dice not modifiers on a critical (5E D&D style vs. A5E where the modifiers are also doubled). There is an FG extension to support this, and you can manually set it up too. On a typical build, not doubling damage modifiers results in about 5% less damage with extended critical range, but there are builds where it results in about 15% less damage.

I would argue that the best solution is to keep it simple, and not have combat maneuvers that modify critical range. The effectiveness of increased critical ranges is a little tricky mathematically to evaluate, and many players can easily make a sub-optimal choice without even realizing it is poor.

Stunning Assault is extremely good, so much so that I would be tempted to nerf it. Our Adept was close to repeatedly stun locking big opponents with it. I'd be inclined to reduce its cost down to 2 points, but only have it activate once.