D&D General GMing and "Player Skill"

Well chess, fighting games, and TF2 are all complete games in and of themselves. RPGs, despite “game” being in the name, aren’t really games. They’re game-creation engines. Adventures are games.
I think the distinction is way more murky than it appears. A map (and its game mode) has tremendous impact on the actual process of play in TF2, and by choosing to play, say, koth_product over cp_process you choose what kind of experience to have (sniper-heavy slow and miserable experience, in this case) – the game as sold on steam is just a pile of options, The Game as played is a specific combination of them.

That aside, theories of games tend to be broadly applicable to all games in the genre. Whether you are playing Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, Hearthstone or now sadly dead Elder Scrolls: Legends, you are still thinking about tempo, card advantage, depriving your opponent of resources, controlling the board, etc. The complete game you are playing determines the way you (or your opponent) gain card advantage or control of the board, but general principles still apply.
 

log in or register to remove this ad



Oh, and I'm not keeping up on the thread, but the Adventure also has to support 'Player Skill'.

If the adventure is nothing but a door kicking hack and slash and the players are given no options, then the 'Player Skill' style is much more difficult.
This is a big problem with a lot of adventures, even more the more modern ones. But it is very much more a problem with DMs.

When a DM only gives vague descriptions like "a room" or "a forest", it does not give the players anything to work with. Even worse is when the DMs let the players add stuff to the game. Where the DM sits back and says "player Joe you describe the tavern". This is "great" for some games, but has the problem that 'player Joe' might not describe the best detailed tavern.

Of course, many DMs even when they try to describe a tavern still keep it vague. They say "um, there are tables and chairs", but that does not fill in much.

Sure you can do the Buddy Game where the DM says "the place looks like a tavern". Then if a fire starts somehow a clever player might Ask the DM "say DM is there a water bucket by the fireplace to put out fire there?" And the DM will say "wow, player, that is a good idea! There is a water bucket there!" Then the player can say "thanks Buddy DM" and have their PC use the bucket.

But the above does require the player to have the clever idea in the first place.
 

This is a big problem with a lot of adventures, even more the more modern ones. But it is very much more a problem with DMs.

When a DM only gives vague descriptions like "a room" or "a forest", it does not give the players anything to work with. Even worse is when the DMs let the players add stuff to the game. Where the DM sits back and says "player Joe you describe the tavern". This is "great" for some games, but has the problem that 'player Joe' might not describe the best detailed tavern.

Of course, many DMs even when they try to describe a tavern still keep it vague. They say "um, there are tables and chairs", but that does not fill in much.

Sure you can do the Buddy Game where the DM says "the place looks like a tavern". Then if a fire starts somehow a clever player might Ask the DM "say DM is there a water bucket by the fireplace to put out fire there?" And the DM will say "wow, player, that is a good idea! There is a water bucket there!" Then the player can say "thanks Buddy DM" and have their PC use the bucket.

But the above does require the player to have the clever idea in the first place.

Right, I already covered that the DM needs to be on the ball as well, just saying that if the adventure isnt supportive, unless the DM rewrites the whole thing, then its hard to get that playstyle out of the players regardless.
 

Right, I already covered that the DM needs to be on the ball as well, just saying that if the adventure isnt supportive, unless the DM rewrites the whole thing, then its hard to get that playstyle out of the players regardless.
Let's say there is a room description in a module that says "There is a swinging blade trap in the fireplace mantle. Anyone searching the fireplace must make a save..."

How do you (anyone, not just Scribe) turn that into a "player skill" situation?
 


Let's say there is a room description in a module that says "There is a swinging blade trap in the fireplace mantle. Anyone searching the fireplace must make a save..."

How do you (anyone, not just Scribe) turn that into a "player skill" situation?
I think it depends on how the player describes what they're searching for and how they're searching.

Depending on the answer, the outcome will be drastically different.

"I'm carefully searching the fireplace for trap triggers" would either give them an automatic response of "oh yeah you can tell that the fireplace is trapped", but if the context is unfavorable (eg dim light, the PC is fatigued or poisoned, the trap is concealed by clever magic) I may call for a skill check to see if they can spot the trap without setting it off.

"I'm quickly searching the room for valuables" comes across as careless and thus would trigger the "make a save; the fireplace was trapped!".
 

Let's say there is a room description in a module that says "There is a swinging blade trap in the fireplace mantle. Anyone searching the fireplace must make a save..."

How do you (anyone, not just Scribe) turn that into a "player skill" situation?
The way to challenge the player as opposed to challenging the character with traps is to make the detection and disarming of the trap a matter of the player paying attention to the description of the environment, making reasonable deductions based on that description to determine the presence of the mechanism, and interacting with it via narrative description of their character’s actions.

So, in the example of the spinning blade trap in the fireplace, you first need to make it possible for a player to reasonably deduce the presence of such a trap based on the description of the environment. There are a few ways you might go about this. For one, you might include in your description of the room some telegraph indicating it. For example, maybe you point out that the fireplace is completely bare of wood, ash, or soot, but is thick with dust and cobwebs. This could hint to the player that the fireplace has neither been used nor cleaned in a long time (because occupants of the space know about the trap). That might be too subtle, particularly if the players have never encountered a trapped fireplace before, so if you want to be a bit more obvious, you might note an un-mortared brick or section of bricks in the fireplace floor to hint at the presence of a pressure plate, and/or a seam along the interior to hint at where the blade swings out from. Some or all of these telegraphs could require a certain passive Perception score to detect, if you’re the sort who likes to include a mix of challenging the player and challenging the character. Though, if you go this route, I strongly suggest including at least one unmissable telegraph, because a trap that gets sprung with zero telegraphs tends to feel like more of a “gotcha” than one that is at least somewhat telegraphed.

Alternatively, you could lay the groundwork earlier in the dungeon, including another identical trap that has previously been sprung and not reset. This lets the player know well in advance that this is a type of trap that exists in the dungeon and they should be on the lookout for. In general, the more the players have been exposed to a certain type of trap, the less telegraphing you have to do for them to have a reasonable chance of noticing it. If you have a dungeon with tons of fireplace traps, after like the third such trap, players are going to be cautious around every fireplace they see in the dungeon, and maybe in other dungeons too.

Of course, detecting the trap is just the first hurdle. Disabling or otherwise mitigating it can also be a challenge for the players, if you give them enough information to make reasonable attempts at interacting with it. This, in my approach, also extends to when checks do become necessary. As I talked about earlier, telling the player what they have to roll before making them commit to actually rolling helps close the information gap between the player and their character, and gives the player the opportunity to feel like they’re choosing to take (or choosing not to take) a calculated risk, rather than asking for a skill check and hoping their bonus is high enough to eke out a success whatever they roll.

And, even in the case that the players totally miss the trap and have to make that saving throw, you can introduce an element of challenging the player to that too, if you’re so inclined. Rather than just calling for the save and applying the results immediately, you can narrate one last telegraph about what their character notices in that split second between triggering the trap and potentially getting hit by it, and letting them respond. For example, “as you lean into the fireplace to investigate, you feel a brick sink slightly beneath your weight, and hear a metallic grinding coming from your right. What do you do?” Then, depending on what the player does, you might give them advantage on their saving throw, or even allow them to succeed automatically on it. Alternatively, maybe they do something counterproductive and get disadvantage or automatically fail.

It’s all about making the player feel like they’re making informed decisions (which may or may not require the roll of a die to determine the outcome of), rather than choosing what stats they want to add to a roll they have to make in order to accomplish anything.
 
Last edited:

Let's say there is a room description in a module that says "There is a swinging blade trap in the fireplace mantle. Anyone searching the fireplace must make a save..."

How do you (anyone, not just Scribe) turn that into a "player skill" situation?
You cant just mention the fireplace in detail, thats obvious. Also, im curious about "anyone searching must make a save..." Does this mean there is no chance to spot the trap before encountering it? If so, you cant really player skill or character skill that situation as it just happens.

Though, its tricky. You need to give enough enough information to be interesting, without giving any obvious clues. At least from folks I feel do this well (most folks I find dont ymmv). I am way out of practice though as I did a bit of this to spice up Paizo AP dungeons as lengthy as later level ones got. These days im much more into social aspects and overviews and less detail oriented. Im struggling becasue all I have in my mind is a room with a fireplace and Im the type that needs a greater context (where are they, what is the reason for this place, etc...) One thing I think is important, is there needs to be some benefit beyond not getting hurt by a trap. Skill play ought to be rewarded to encourage it in the first place.

You enter a study with dark rosewood walls and gold trimmed fixtures and window treatments. Shelves are lined with books and a writing desk with numerous drawers and compartments sits neatly by a fireplace. A glowing set of embers crackles as the fire is slowly dying out. A large handwoven rug is lying across the floor with a large inviting sitting chair sits opposite side of the room from the writing desk. A single book sits on a small end table within arms reach of the sitting chair. A small ladder aligned with casters lies against the wall that can be used to reach higher shelves of books and documents stored on them. Currently, the room is empty of any occupants, and it seems its been so for at least an hour or two judging by the state of the fire.

I'd put a scroll or other trinket just inside the chimney that can be reached into to obtain. Doing so without addressing the trap though will result in the blade swinging out of the bottom of the mantle and striking the person standing in front. The blade swings out and then resets quickly after a second or two. Behind a book on one of the shelves is a lever that will lock the blade in place. Otherwise, the blade could be jammed with an object to prevent reset. Though, it would have to be triggered beforehand and timed.

Something like that maybe.
 

Remove ads

Top