Battletech Public Playtest Thread

[Kannik]

Like weight class initiative and stability damage only from ballistics, etc...

Class initiative was interesting but it broke down in some places, namely that it made many mechs just beyond the limit break decidedly worse than lighter mechs. This was especially noticeable with the classic 80 and 85 ton assaults. That Zeus or B-Master doesn't get enough extra armour or weaponry (due to the exponential engine weights that BT 'features') over a Warhammer or Marauder to make up for that the WH and MAD can both move and fire before the Zeus or BM can do anything. The AWS is OK because it's only 3/5... but any 4/6 assault is heavily penalized.

What might work well though is having the inits break down by movement, rather than by weight class. This of course increases dramatically the number of init slots (and for at tabletop game could make record keeping somewhat insane), but it rewards more 'nimble' mechs (as indicated by their movement score). Suddenly the Charger might actually be slightly less terrible?

Of course, if simultaneous fire is kept rather than fully adopting the HBS integrated move/fire turn sequence then the detrimental effect would be less pronounced.

Stability wise, when I was toying of how I'd do that on table top I liked the idea of having energy weapons still do some stability damage (armour blasting or melting off could still cause the mech to suddenly unbalance), just at a lower rate than their damage done, while having ballistics and missiles do equal to or more than their damage value. Extra work/complexity, but also would give another way to balance weapon types.

 

[payn]

Stability wise, when I was toying of how I'd do that on table top I liked the idea of having energy weapons still do some stability damage (armour blasting or melting off could still cause the mech to suddenly unbalance), just at a lower rate than their damage done, while having ballistics and missiles do equal to or more than their damage value. Extra work/complexity, but also would give another way to balance weapon types.

I’d be fine giving energy zero stability impact on account they don’t need ammo nor risk explosion. Seems like a nice buff that Ammo weapons need.

 

[RangerWickett]

You can aim with targeting computers! (though Im a curmudgeon about their existence).

Though, when you say "the video games" you gotta clarify that the video games are Mechwarrior and the table top is Battletech. In the former you can take out 24 mechs and over 30 vehicles single-handedly, not so much in the latter. Unless you are talking about HBS Battletech video game which allows aiming with a morale system that isnt part of the tabletop ruleset. I cant say I havent imagined adding some HBS ideas into the tabletop version though. Like weight class initiative and stability damage only from ballistics, etc...

Well, I'm thinking about Mechwarrior Online, where one-on-one fights are quite balanced, and a big deciding factor of skill is how well you can figure out which components to aim at to most quickly degrade their ability to kill you.

A friend and I designed a home mech combat system we called Aimbots, which was built from the ground up with the assumption that you're always aiming, and about 25% of shots hit where you're aiming, 50% hit a random location, and 25% miss. Normally you'll start by aiming at something high-value like a gun or the engine (each component has its own armor, instead of each body part). But the random hits will knock armor off less-important components like heat sinks and arm actuators, so you're going to constantly be adjusting your calculus of what you need to aim at.

I need to do some more test games of that system. I rather liked it.

 

[RangerWickett]

When all 8 are going to hit a single location, you're done for. Why bother installing an AC/20 then?

Yeah, that was a problem in MWO. In the early Beta test days I pitched some proposals to moderate that, to try to make convergence less feasible. But they wanted to keep it so shots went to where your reticle is pointing, so for balance they went with a system called 'ghost heat' instead, which just made firing too many weapons at once produce extra heat. It was, eh, fine.

Of course, if you're building a game from scratch, you can just not make units that boat weapons, or make the heat system penalize it.

 

[Celebrim]

Class initiative was interesting but it broke down in some places, namely that it made many mechs just beyond the limit break decidedly worse than lighter mechs. This was especially noticeable with the classic 80 and 85 ton assaults. That Zeus or B-Master doesn't get enough extra armour or weaponry (due to the exponential engine weights that BT 'features') over a Warhammer or Marauder to make up for that the WH and MAD can both move and fire before the Zeus or BM can do anything. The AWS is OK because it's only 3/5... but any 4/6 assault is heavily penalized.

My experience with weight class based initiative is that it made mechs that already suck, much worse. Mechs like the Cicada, Quickdraw, and the Assassin get penalized hard. I'm not all that terribly worried about the 4/6 assaults though because Assaults are already too good and I'm OK with WH and MAD being "hero mechs", but I did hate how the 60 ton 5/8s and the 40 ton scouts suffered given how they were generally bad to begin with.

I don't think I'd mine speed based initiative with 5/8s getting a bonus of +1 and 6/9 and higher getting a bonus of +2. That would more or less replicate the weight class based rules for most mechs but doesn't double penalize the 60 ton 5/8s and 40 ton 6/9s.

 

[payn]

Playtest report 3.

This was a game im a player in. Its also a narrative campaign in which the GM runs the opfor. This was late Clan Invasion and we were IS mercs. Most our mechs were IS still, but we outfitted some clan tech like the occasional medium pulse or missile rack. The mission was to protect a supply depot that included a few mech repair bays. As long as we kept the power generator active, we could spend a turn using the bays. Otherwise, the clanners had to take out various infrastructure. The map was very much urban with lots of roads and buildings.

The interesting bit for this game made the side arc hunting strategy very difficult to pull off. Folks could use buildings to hide sides/rear and cut off certain units all together. Despite the side table playtest rule, this felt like usual CBT to us since the tactic wasnt really something either team could rely on. It ended up being a bit of a peak-a-boo slog until damage showed and then it was all hands on deck into the sides.

 

[Kannik]

Yeah, that was a problem in MWO. In the early Beta test days I pitched some proposals to moderate that, to try to make convergence less feasible. But they wanted to keep it so shots went to where your reticle is pointing, so for balance they went with a system called 'ghost heat' instead, which just made firing too many weapons at once produce extra heat. It was, eh, fine.

Of course, if you're building a game from scratch, you can just not make units that boat weapons, or make the heat system penalize it.

-nodnods- Back in MechWarrior 1, when you fired your TIC (Target Interlocking Circuit -- and you only had one!) rather than fire everything at once, it would rapid-cycle chainfire through each weapon in turn, and targeting, even with lasers, wasn't 100% always accurate to the centre of the reticle. This meant that due to your movement (including step bounce), their movement, and impact from weapon fire, it wasn't likely to put all damage exactly in the same spot. Some might miss, some might spread across different torsos, etc. If terrain had been a thing capable in those heady days of the 286, some might have hit trees or other cover. And, for slower weapons like ACs and Missiles, those things could be exacerbated (though the opposite was also possible, where the slower round meant the target ended up drifting into the shot).

Either way, it meant that it was still better to fire a TIC than manual chainfire, but those 6 forward facing MLs in your Battlemaster wasn't an instant guaranteed kill.

Cool that you provided suggestions to the MWO team to moderate boating and weapon convergence! What ideas did you present to them?

 

[Kannik]

Playtest report 3.

One, love reading these after-action reports!

Two, wow, I am seriously envious at how much BT and RP-BT you're getting to play. I don't think I'll be able to reply to CGL about these changes as they request only playtest reports and without a standing group of players I doubt I'll have a chance to actually play anytime soon, let alone playtest something.

 

[payn]

One, love reading these after-action reports!

Two, wow, I am seriously envious at how much BT and RP-BT you're getting to play. I don't think I'll be able to reply to CGL about these changes as they request only playtest reports and without a standing group of players I doubt I'll have a chance to actually play anytime soon, let alone playtest something.

Glad you enjoy them! Here in the Twin Cities we have a pretty large and active BT community. Regular pick up games, tournaments, and campaign play are happening just about any night of the week. I've also been told by out of towners that we are really fortunate here in the TC because we have not only a large number of FLGS, but the FLGS we have often spacious and conducive to gaming groups. Also, Wolfnet radio guys are from here. They focus on Alpha Strike and are the ones that came up with the AS350 format. Finally, we have KSAGG our local BT only convention in December that features CBT, AS, painting, vendors, etc...

Its good to be a BT player in the Twin Cities!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yeah, that was a problem in MWO. In the early Beta test days I pitched some proposals to moderate that, to try to make convergence less feasible. But they wanted to keep it so shots went to where your reticle is pointing, so for balance they went with a system called 'ghost heat' instead, which just made firing too many weapons at once produce extra heat. It was, eh, fine.

Of course, if you're building a game from scratch, you can just not make units that boat weapons, or make the heat system penalize it.

Oh god, how much I hate the very idea of ghost heat. It seems there were so many better approaches to do it ,that would probably also feel more plausible.
Grrhh.

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One thing that bothers me a bit about Battletech is that Mechs die too easy. I don't mean that they get to defeated too easy, but that very often they die by damage to the center torso, and the chances of surviving are low. That kinda stands against the claim of mechs handed down by generations. They should almost always be salvagable IMO, the effort and price for it might be something too much for smaller Mercenary outfits. Or the rules (and setting) need clearer support for retreats.