Will the complexity pendulum swing back?

[Reynard]

See, I'd argue those were abstracting representative things; both luck and inspiration are things people recognize existing conceptually in the setting. They're not purely story manipulation tools, but they also don't directly relate to what they're representing.

I think for it to actually be metacurrency, it has to be a player resource, not a character resource, that manipulates the system, not anything that exists in the world. Other wise it is just another mechanical abstraction (like hit points of skill ranks or whatever).

 

[Micah Sweet]

See, I'd argue those were abstracting representative things; both luck and inspiration are things people recognize existing conceptually in the setting. They're not purely story manipulation tools, but they also don't directly relate to what they're representing.

I could see going either way on them, but to me they learn narrative.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think for it to actually be metacurrency, it has to be a player resource, not a character resource, that manipulates the system, not anything that exists in the world. Other wise it is just another mechanical abstraction (like hit points of skill ranks or whatever).

Luck and inspiration definitely fall into that category them in most cases.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think for it to actually be metacurrency, it has to be a player resource, not a character resource, that manipulates the system, not anything that exists in the world. Other wise it is just another mechanical abstraction (like hit points of skill ranks or whatever).

I suspect you're not going to find general agreement on that. I see people refer to WoD Will points as metacurrency all the time, and that's more directly rooted in the characters than either of the examples I gave.

I agree there's a difference between the two kinds, but in general they're treated interchangeably. You see this in Eclipse Phase which has four "pools", three of which are a way to represent things that absolutely exist in-setting and one of which mostly aren't, but they're only treated as slightly different.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I could see going either way on them, but to me they learn narrative.

Yeah, but you're super-purist for simulation Micah. You gotta admit that's going to color your view on it.

 

[Deset Gled]

I think for it to actually be metacurrency, it has to be a player resource, not a character resource, that manipulates the system, not anything that exists in the world.

I suspect you're not going to find general agreement on that. I see people refer to WoD Will points as metacurrency all the time, and that's more directly rooted in the characters than either of the examples I gave.

There is a recent thread on Force Points in SW d6. That's definitely a metacurrency that has one foot on the player resource side, and one foot firmly on the character side and interacting with the game world. Although I have to admit we never called it "metacurrency" back in the 90s.

 

[aramis erak]

I ran L5R (d10 system) for years as TotM. Never had any trouble.

I had a couple larger fights, too small for the battle system, too big for TOTM, in 3rd. a few of those I solved by using the Clan War minis game rules.

 

[aramis erak]

There is a recent thread on Force Points in SW d6. That's definitely a metacurrency that has one foot on the player resource side, and one foot firmly on the character side and interacting with the game world. Although I have to admit we never called it "metacurrency" back in the 90s.

Almost no one considers XP, a player side resource, as a metacurrency, either... but it is. It's an abstraction into metacurrency. More clearly so in games like Storyteller System, Hero, or GURPS... the latter two being "experience is just more points to spend…" ... as they have multiple ways to spend XP/Exp/AP/CP etc...

And in WEG SW 2e, the experience points are not just spendable for advancement... the character points are both for experience and for occasionally boosting rolls. (1 CP = +1D this roll; {dice} CP = permanent +1D to skill; not cost efficient, but the easy)

I can't recall how long ago I first heard the term Metacurrency...

But it's well after games started including metacurrencies. Counting boardgames/minis wargames, we get back to the 1960's, with Experience Points in naval minis campaigning. Possibly earlier, but I don't have the resources to check. (note that "experience points" turns up into the 1800's, but not in a gaming context. As in, "Some people experience points of despair.")

 

[Reynard]

There is a recent thread on Force Points in SW d6. That's definitely a metacurrency that has one foot on the player resource side, and one foot firmly on the character side and interacting with the game world. Although I have to admit we never called it "metacurrency" back in the 90s.

Force Points exist in the fiction of the game. They are just a resource.

 

[aramis erak]

Force Points exist in the fiction of the game. They are just a resource.

Not as "force points"... but only as moments of being inspired by the force.