Will the complexity pendulum swing back?

[Thomas Shey]

I allow luck and inspiration mechanics (by which I mean mechanics explicitly designed to represent those things, not mechanics where they might be considered a factor) because my players want them and it's not worth the fight. I don't particularly care for them personally.

What I'm saying is that there are settings where they absolutely should be reflected, and that's true whether you like them or not. You might avoid those settings if you dislike that, but it'd be silly to say those settings shouldn't do so or that its not, to a degree, simulationist to represent them there.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Like who?

In the game, everyone. Everyone gets a Force Point or two, and prior to the whole mandicloreans business, there was nothing to suggest they shouldn't.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would argue that Force Points are both representative of something that is real in the setting - the Force is with you - and a metacurrency intended to facilitate and reward reckless swashbuckling actions.

But, in a fantasy or mythology setting where Tymora or the Norns are objectively real, who is to say that Luck and Fate don’t also represent something objectively real?

 

[Micah Sweet]

What I'm saying is that there are settings where they absolutely should be reflected, and that's true whether you like them or not. You might avoid those settings if you dislike that, but it'd be silly to say those settings shouldn't do so or that its not, to a degree, simulationist to represent them there.

If they really exist in the setting, sure. Can you give me an example?

 

[Micah Sweet]

In the game, everyone. Everyone gets a Force Point or two, and prior to the whole mandicloreans business, there was nothing to suggest they shouldn't.

Well, the Force is in all living things, M-count or not.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would argue that Force Points are both representative of something that is real in the setting - the Force is with you - and a metacurrency intended to facilitate and reward reckless swashbuckling actions.

But, in a fantasy or mythology setting where Tymora or the Norns are objectively real, who is to say that Luck and Fate don’t also represent something objectively real?

Well, the GM for starters, but like I said it's generally not worth fighting over.

 

[aramis erak]

I still have my copy of Clan War.

Same. For 2nd or 3rd (and presumably 4th, tho' I skipped 4th other than core; I was happy enough with 3) , it's a great adjunct.
It's less useful with 5th, due to different assumptions, but still, PC's it's just use their rings as is for their CW ratings.

I never got much into the card game, and my kids destroyed my Diskwars disks.

Which reminds me...

The interlocking systems idea...
TSR, GDW, FASA, WEG, & DP9 all had games at various scales for some of their major game lines. AD&D Battlesystem.
Traveller's Mayday, Snapshot, Azhanti High Lightning, Imperium, Dark Nebula, Fifth Frontier war, Striker. of those, Imperium, DN, & FFW were not readily useful in most campaign styles
FASA Battletech (too many to list)
FASA Renegade Legion: Interceptor, Centurion, Leviathon, Circus Imperium, Legionnaire. Legionnaire is the RPG.
FASA STRPG: ST3 Ship Combat game (expanded from the core RPG rules in STRPG1e)
WEG: Star Wars, Star Warriors, Star Wars Miniatures Battles (and 3 not readily used in RPG board wargames I'm too lazy to look up)
DP9: Heavy Gear: the RPG and the Minis Game use the same rules. Some editions, they were a combined rulebook.
DP9: Jovian Chronicles: same system as HG, and likewise, some editions combined the minis and RPG rules in one volume.

I wonder if we'll see more like those.

 

[Neonchameleon]

They are not "meta" to the fiction, no. They are abstractions that represent in-fiction phenomenon for statistical calculation. A meta currency ia entirely "meta" to the world of the narrative, it is metafictional rather than mathematical simulation of the fictional phenomenon.

Ahhh... The "what is a hit point?" argument. And given that hit points measure how beaten up you can get without getting injured or slowed. Plot armour in other words.

 

[Parmandur]

Ahhh... The "what is a hit point?" argument. And given that hit points measure how beaten up you can get without getting injured or slowed. Plot armour in other words.

Yes, plot armor...within the fiction.

 

[Parmandur]

I would argue that Force Points are both representative of something that is real in the setting - the Force is with you - and a metacurrency intended to facilitate and reward reckless swashbuckling actions.

But, in a fantasy or mythology setting where Tymora or the Norns are objectively real, who is to say that Luck and Fate don’t also represent something objectively real?

That's a fair point, there are corner cases, for example Heroic Inspiration in 5E. It is essentially a metacurrency, but there is somewhat an attempt to also ground it narratively.

Hit points or force points, however, are not a metacurrency as used in more modern games, by design nor intent.