D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Not a Decepticon]

If someone says it is unrealistic for characters to know their own skills, abilities, rests, etc and then the response is to give a real world example that said person is completely and utterly wrong what do NPCs have to do with this?

Ok, do you have exact number of your stregth score, dex score, con score, intelligence score* and your hp and ac? How they comapre to your squadmates?

*- IQ tests do not count due to being unreliable.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm sorry. What in the world are you talking about?
Why would I see elves in the real world special operations environment?

If someone says it is unrealistic for characters to know their own skills, abilities, rests, etc and then the response is to give a real world example that said person is completely and utterly wrong what do NPCs have to do with this?

We're talking about the game, not real world special forces. We're talking about whether PCs will know their mechanical numbers(HPs, levels, etc.) or not.

A PC can know what he can do, but he won't know the damage numbers behind it, his exact bonuses to hit, etc. The mechanics are for the players, not the PCs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Your scenario definitely has time pressure, but no single example is evidence that such pressure exists "nearly all the time". Let me give you an example. Your PCs have entered a sealed tomb filled with undead. They destroy several of them but suffer a significant loss of resources in the process. The party decides to pull back to a safe location and get some sleep before heading out again the next day. Is time pressure in this scenario necessary, or even plausible? Maybe, maybe not depending on other circumstances, but one thing it isn't is very unusual in a game of D&D, so therefore time pressure can't be present "almost all the time", at least not the kind that means you can't put off the work by a day.

Almost all the time.

Here's a situation. Your PCs have just snuck into the mansion of the local Mayor, who you guys suspect of being a local cult leader. You kill 6 cultists in the entryway to the mansion and hear movement beyond coming towards you. You rolled poorly and are down about 40% of your resources, so you decide to leave and rest for 24 hours before coming back to the mansion.

What is going to happen at the mansion while you are resting?

 

[Maxperson]

Then again, D&D has a lot of mindless monsters, golems, undead, slimes etc. Like a while a go in my campaign the characters were exploring forgotten tomb. They fought some things on the way there, they encounters some traps and undead inside the tomb. And had it not been gritty rests with sanctuary requirement, they totally could have just taken long rest after each fight outside the tomb, no problem. The undead had been guarding the tomb for centuries, they were not going to leave now, nor had they intelligence or initiative to make any new defences.

Yes, which is why I say almost all the time. If you're in a place where there are nothing but mindless things, you can rest. Though even then you take the gamble that the mindless things won't mindlessly wander into your resting spot at some point during the long rest. Or that the golems haven't been programmed to seek out intruders if attacked. Or...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure. What you can't know is the result of your action. Oh, you can know that in 24 hours you will recover your resources, but you can't know the cost of taking 24 hours of time to do it.

Is this the time pressure argument again? What does that have to do with a PCs ability to act on recognizable patterns of energy expenditure and recovery?

 

[Maxperson]

Your scenario definitely has time pressure, but no single example is evidence that such pressure exists "nearly all the time". Let me give you an example. Your PCs have entered a sealed tomb filled with undead. They destroy several of them but suffer a significant loss of resources in the process. The party decides to pull back to a safe location and get some sleep before heading out again the next day. Is time pressure in this scenario necessary, or even plausible? Maybe, maybe not depending on other circumstances, but one thing it isn't is very unusual in a game of D&D, so therefore time pressure can't be present "almost all the time", at least not the kind that means you can't put off the work by a day.

What time pressure? They cultists may do nothing at all during your rest. Or they may go out and round up 5 locals to sacrifice in a ritual to summon a demon.

These unknowns exist almost every time you run away to rest after 24 seconds of fighting.

 

[Maxperson]

Is this the time pressure argument again? What does that have to do with a PCs ability to act on recognizable patterns of energy expenditure and recovery?

Nothing. That has never been the issue. Nobody is arguing that a long rest doesn't restore abilities.

 

[bedir than]

We're talking about the game, not real world special forces. We're talking about whether PCs will know their mechanical numbers(HPs, levels, etc.) or not.

A PC can know what he can do, but he won't know the damage numbers behind it, his exact bonuses to hit, etc. The mechanics are for the players, not the PCs.

No, the thread of responses I was participating in was clearly talking about how it was unrealistic for real world people to know their own abilities, rests and recharging.

That's why the real world example was brought up.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I want to play with people who play the game, not exploit it.

Ok, so this whole thing is just your personal opinion on the issue, and not an attempt to explain how the game works in general? I apologize for misunderstanding you; your rhetoric didn't make it clear to me were speaking subjectively and just for yourself and your table. Sounds good. Obviously I feel differently, but we all play our own game.

 

[bedir than]

Ok, do you have exact number of your stregth score, dex score, con score, intelligence score* and your hp and ac? How they comapre to your squadmates?

*- IQ tests do not count due to being unreliable.

This is the nitpicking I warned about and expected.

I'm afraid it would be unreasonable to require me to give an entire summation of four years of active duty and four years in the national guard in a way that would be suitable for this forum. Trust me when I say that we knew each other's endurance, strength, manual dexterity. These aren't hard things to know. We knew who was more observant and who was less. Leadership without rank is knowable.
Do we have scores? no.
I'm not going to write the tens of thousands of words be demanded.

Since the knowledge and awareness of things that are gamified do exist in the real world can we put away the simplistic notion that resting and recharging is unknowable by PCs since it's knowable by players and people in real life?