D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

[Remathilis]

Wut!? Not even PC species are well balanced. They certainly ain’t balanced for NPCs. I’m pretty sure AoE breath weapons that do more than enough damage to kill several enemy troops at once even if they are save beat a unit of dwarves with an extra hp apiece and the ability to sense tremors.

I believe if you use CR calculations using the guidance in the 2014 DMG giving the basic warrior Dragonborn breath weapon pushes its CR up from 1/4 to over 1. This does not happen for other species abilities.

Its worth considering that not all dragonborn breath weapons are equal. Even PC dragonborn breath weapons rank up with level, so its not unreasonable that NPC dragonborn could have weaker breath weapons and less frequent uses. Perhaps the basic warrior NPC dragonborn only does 1d6 or 1d8 damage (DC 10) once per day. A dragonborn commoner's breath weapon is a line that does 1d4 damage (DC 10), while something like a veteran dragonborn does 1d10 (DC 12) and recharges on a 6 on 1d6. As long as the breath weapon does not excede its maximum damage per round with its normal attacks, it shouldn't be a concern.

(Its also important to remember that you don't have to account for all PC traits a species gets, just enough of them to give the feel of the species. If WotC has taught me anything, even if a species is considered a member of a given species, it doesn't mean it has all that species's traits).

 

[Minigiant]

Species Template for Humanoid Statblocks

SPECIES	TYPICAL FEATURES
Aasimar *	Resist radiant-necrotic, Heal pro d4, Light, Fly 30
Dragonborn *	Resist type, 15' cone Dex: 1d10 type
Dwarf *	Resist poison, Hit points +3, Tremorsense 60
Elf *	Cantrip, Detect Magic, Misty Step, Resist charm, Immune sleep.
Gnome *	Save adv: Wis, Int, Cha Minor Illusion, Speak with Animals
Goliath	Frost: hit +1d6 cold, slow. Fire: hit +1d10 fire
. . .

Dragonborn Breath weapon damage would be about 1d6 + 2d6*CR

If you like the d10s for consistency then about

1d10 + 1d10*CR
CR 1/8: 1d6 damage
CR 1/4: 1d10 amage
CR 1/2: 1d10+2 damage

Buts that's assume 1 failed target or 2 successes

Half dice if you are assume more targets.

 

[Remathilis]

No, NPCs aren’t PCs, by their definition they can’t be, but i see no logical reason why that means they wouldn’t have the same traits that every single PC member of their species does, I don’t see PCs as some special ‘species plus’ variant of their people, the party elf might be stronger, tougher, smarter than the average elf, but their resistance to sleep and charm is not different from other elves, nor is their perception proficiency or their magical cantrip.

Interestingly, WotC put a bunch of NPCs with specific species in both the recent Forgotten Realms and Eberron books. Lets look at the traits they get that are uniquely species:

Eberron: Forge of the Artificer:
Boromar Undreboss (halfling): Hustle (Halfling Nimbleness)
Cannifth Artificer (human): None
Ghallandra Troubleshooter (halfling): Hustle (Halfling Nimbleness), Immune to Frightened (Bravery)
Jorasco Medic (halfling): Lucky
Kundarak Warden (dwarf): Darkvision
Lyrandar Scion (Khoravar/Half-elf): Darkvision
Medani Inquisitive (Khoravar/Half-elf): Darkvision
Orien Inforcer (Human): None
Sentinel Marshal (Human): None
Shadow-Marked Agent (Elf): Darkvision
Sivis Scribe (gnome): Darkvision
Tharashk Hunter (Human or Orc): Darkvision (regardless I guess)
Vadalis Heir (human): None
Vulkoori Stingblade (elf/drow): darkvision, fey ancestry
Vulkoori Venom Priest (elf/drow): Darkvision, Fey ancestry, dancing lights cantrip
Umbragen Shadow Walker (elf/drow): Darkvision, Sunlight Sensitivity, Fey Ancestry, Dancing Lights and Darkness spells.

Adventures in Faerun
Drow Elite Warrior of Lolth (elf/drow): Darkvision, Sunlight Sensitivity, Fey Ancestry
Drow of Lolth (elf/drow): Darkvision, Sunlight Sensitivity, Fey Ancestry, Dancing Lights and Faerie Fire
Drow Mage of Lolth (elf/drow): Darkvision, Sunlight Sensitivity, Fey Ancestry, dancing lights, faerie fire
Drow Priestess of Lolth (elf/drow): Darkvision, Sunlight Sensitivity, Fey Ancestry, dancing lights

It should be noted PC drow don't get sunlight sensitivity anymore.

That said, it doesn't really look like most NPCs got species traits. No fey ancestry for non-drow, no gnomish cunning, dwarf resilience or adrenaline rush. Mostly, its just the correct amount of darkvision. (I will note that some Elven and Khoravar NPCs got cantrips, but they seemed to be related to their dragonmark and not their species).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Its worth considering that not all dragonborn breath weapons are equal. Even PC dragonborn breath weapons rank up with level, so its not unreasonable that NPC dragonborn could have weaker breath weapons and less frequent uses. Perhaps the basic warrior NPC dragonborn only does 1d6 or 1d8 damage (DC 10) once per day. A dragonborn commoner's breath weapon is a line that does 1d4 damage (DC 10), while something like a veteran dragonborn does 1d10 (DC 12) and recharges on a 6 on 1d6. As long as the breath weapon does not excede its maximum damage per round with its normal attacks, it shouldn't be a concern.

(Its also important to remember that you don't have to account for all PC traits a species gets, just enough of them to give the feel of the species. If WotC has taught me anything, even if a species is considered a member of a given species, it doesn't mean it has all that species's traits).

Even if the breath weapon is only D6 once per day a 15' cone is going to devastating on a pseudo-medieval battlefield*, since each person on the enemy front row will be hit by three in the first round for 3d6 - enough to wipe out the entire rank. So you would also have to reduce the cone range to 5'. And you have just spent a whole lot of time developing complex rules for a situation PCs will never encounter**. Since you have just ruled that most dragonborn do not have PC abilities anyway, it's easier to say most NPC dragonborn have breath weapons that are not hot enough to toast marshmallows. Or there aren't enough dragonborn around to have more than one in your army.

Meanwhile, a dragonborn who does have full PC abilities would make for a good miniboss as a bandit leader for a group of 2nd level PCs.


*any species that can field massed units of AoE damage (e.g. humans with Arcane Initiate Thunderwave) would have a similar effect on how war is fought as the introduction of the machine gun in WWI. It doesn't matter if it's only once per day, since you simply rotate ranks.

**the “vibe” of 5e. Is keep it simple. If you go round inventing lots of extra rules for specific situations then you have missed the point.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Maybe some players would rather dragonborn or other PC species to be rare or exotic to feel their PCs are different or special.

It's like fashion trends: when something becomes too common, people get tired of it and look for something new. If, for example, there's an overabundance of tiefling characters, then they "go out of style." and then the new star among the bad guys would be the hellbred from 3.5 Inferna Codex II

 

[Zardnaar]

Even if the breath weapon is only D6 once per day a 15' cone is going to devastating on a pseudo-medieval battlefield*, since each person on the enemy front row will be hit by three in the first round for 3d6 - enough to wipe out the entire rank. So you would also have to reduce the cone range to 5'. And you have just spent a whole lot of time developing complex rules for a situation PCs will never encounter**. Since you have just ruled that most dragonborn do not have PC abilities anyway, it's easier to say most NPC dragonborn have breath weapons that are not hot enough to toast marshmallows. Or there aren't enough dragonborn around to have more than one in your army.

Meanwhile, a dragonborn who does have full PC abilities would make for a good miniboss as a bandit leader for a group of 2nd level PCs.


*any species that can field massed units of AoE damage (e.g. humans with Arcane Initiate Thunderwave) would have a similar effect on how war is fought as the introduction of the machine gun in WWI. It doesn't matter if it's only once per day, since you simply rotate ranks.

**the “vibe” of 5e. Is keep it simple. If you go round inventing lots of extra rules for specific situations then you have missed the point.

Or you use ranged combat more or use trenches vs actual medieval warfare.

Or train humans en mass to use firebolt or whatever.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

An army of high elves with firebolt and other offensive cantrip would probably destroy them.

Yup, as soon as you start allowing PC abilities on mass ranks of troops you very quickly get a magical arms race that turns every setting into Eberron.

That’s why player character exceptionalism is such an important concept for any traditional pseudo-medieval setting like FR and Greyhawk. You need to assume most elves either don’t learn cantrips or only learn ones that are useless in battle.

 

[Hussar]

Yup, as soon as you start allowing PC abilities on mass ranks of troops you very quickly get a magical arms race that turns every setting into Eberron.

That’s why player character exceptionalism is such an important concept for any traditional pseudo-medieval setting like FR and Greyhawk. You need to assume most elves either don’t learn cantrips or only learn ones that are useless in battle.

Of course, this rolls right back around to the origins of this thread. The OP does not want to recycle FR or Greyhawk. He wants a new setting where you don't have to handicap species in order to make a setting work because the setting was written half a century ago and couldn't possibly account for the changes in the game.

Player character exceptionalism becomes completely unimportant in any setting which takes species abilities into account when world building.

 

[mamba]

Of course, this rolls right back around to the origins of this thread. The OP does not want to recycle FR or Greyhawk. He wants a new setting where you don't have to handicap species in order to make a setting work because the setting was written half a century ago and couldn't possibly account for the changes in the game.

Player character exceptionalism becomes completely unimportant in any setting which takes species abilities into account when world building.

so… Dragonborn are rare again, as otherwise their breath weapon battalions would have wiped out mankind and taken over most of the world centuries ago? Sounds like we are back to square one

 

[Remathilis]

Even if the breath weapon is only D6 once per day a 15' cone is going to devastating on a pseudo-medieval battlefield*, since each person on the enemy front row will be hit by three in the first round for 3d6 - enough to wipe out the entire rank. So you would also have to reduce the cone range to 5'. And you have just spent a whole lot of time developing complex rules for a situation PCs will never encounter**. Since you have just ruled that most dragonborn do not have PC abilities anyway, it's easier to say most NPC dragonborn have breath weapons that are not hot enough to toast marshmallows. Or there aren't enough dragonborn around to have more than one in your army.

Meanwhile, a dragonborn who does have full PC abilities would make for a good miniboss as a bandit leader for a group of 2nd level PCs.


*any species that can field massed units of AoE damage (e.g. humans with Arcane Initiate Thunderwave) would have a similar effect on how war is fought as the introduction of the machine gun in WWI. It doesn't matter if it's only once per day, since you simply rotate ranks.

**the “vibe” of 5e. Is keep it simple. If you go round inventing lots of extra rules for specific situations then you have missed the point.

An infantry warrior has 9 HP and an 11 Con. If the Dragonborn equivalent uses his breath weapon 1/day, he gets a guaranteed 1-3 damage and potentially up to 6 damage, which is less than his spear. Even if he max rolls and everyone fails their saves, they aren't dead. And the range isn't hitting massive amounts of people unless you are forcing them into phalanx style combat: once enemy is engaged targets spread out and intermix with allies, limiting your options for AOE unless the Dragonborn don't care about friendly fire. At best, they would have to be the first line and act as a mini siege weapon on opening round, then they are just regular infantry. And enemies would know that and react like they did to all weapon advancements, counter strategy and tech.

Then again, this is D&D and the rules of medieval warfare end the moment you introduce any fantasy element at all. Magic? You pointed out yourself even cantrips and first level spells would change everything. How about monster units like ogres (reach) or harpies (aerial) or wargs (intelligent mounts)? Even skeletons and zombies would be superior as they are hard to kill (again) and tireless, plus they don't break rank unless their is an opposing cleric. If a Dragonborns d6 fire damage breaks D&D mass combat, then you can never have anything but normal humans fighting with normal weapons.