D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

Can you answer the question please, @Maxperson? Is it your contention that it is entirely coincidental that these elements only appear in a setting after they appear in the rules? That these elements were always part of the setting, just off screen? And, their appearance "on screen" has absolutely nothing to do with their appearance in the rules?

Is that correct?
 

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But here's the thing... The absence of something in previous edition doesn't mean that the setting is encased in amber and not allowed to grow with and assimilate new options introduced to the game. Adding in a platoon of dwarven wizards doesn't rewrite the setting, it just introduces a new facet that was afore unbeknownst.


Well, actually... There's Melf and his favorite acid arrows.


You mean during 1e, when Unearthed Arcana allowed elves to become high priests (assuming they have the necessary ability scores).


They didn't have to at all, they just decided (without my input, no less 😉) and ruined things in so doing. They could have simply hand-waved the differences away and no one would have blinked.



Because they unwarrantedly believe that they needed to do that in the change from 1e to 2e for some reason I cannot fathom. However, FR was spared a RSE when it was upgraded to 3e.



Well, Dark Sun and Ravenloft both had RESs in the middle of an edition. And FR had the Horde shaking some realms.

That's not an absolute truth.

If they water down what made the setting appealing in the first place..... I think Spelljammer and Planescape did that. Ravenloft as well.
 

Can you answer the question please, @Maxperson? Is it your contention that it is entirely coincidental that these elements only appear in a setting after they appear in the rules? That these elements were always part of the setting, just off screen? And, their appearance "on screen" has absolutely nothing to do with their appearance in the rules?

Is that correct?
The vast majority of people who ever lived on this planet are not recoded in any history. The tiny fraction of people who do get recorded is entirely coincidental, yes.

But there is no need for there to be any other dwarven wizards in the world in order for PC Bob to be a dwarven wizard. Because PC Bob is exceptional, like all player characters.
 

That's not an absolute truth.

If they water down what made the setting appealing in the first place..... I think Spelljammer and Planescape did that. Ravenloft as well.
No, Spelljammer was poorly executed, lacked content and had ship combat rules that are simply not fun. There changes to the setting (such as getting rid of the sillly phlo stuff) were improvements.

And VGR fixed a lot of the stupidities that were introduced in the 2nd edition boxed set. It’s an excellent book, but could have been longer.
 

No, Spelljammer was poorly executed, lacked content and had ship combat rules that are simply not fun. There changes to the setting (such as getting rid of the sillly phlo stuff) were improvements.

And VGR fixed a lot of the stupidities that were introduced in the 2nd edition boxed set. It’s an excellent book, but could have been longer.

You forgot to add an IMHO.

You keep dismissing people's opinions constantly.

Any IP that changes things (movies, games, beer, whatever) with the assumption that they can attract new consumers and keep the old ones are fools. Assumptions are the mother of all F ups.

New Coke comes to mind. 4E D&D is another. Movie reboots often blow up and flop hard.

Sone peopke think change at any price is ibe. Theyre entitled to that opinion. Reality however dictates product change that alienates your core audience and fails to attract a new one dont tend to change around.

Where that line exists consists of way to many factors.

I dont think anyone cares to much about new Ravenloft now vs the old one. Beyond Curse of Strahd anyway.

Anemic, corporate, watered down slop tends to have that effect. Applies to music, games, books, RPGs anything really. What counts as slop is up to the consumer.
 

You forgot to add an IMHO.
It’s a forum, of course opinion, and I dislike false modesty.
Any IP that changes things (movies, games, beer, whatever) with the assumption that they can attract new consumers and keep the old ones are fools. Assumptions are the mother of all F ups.
Sometimes (most of the time) you need to abandon the old ones, and focus on the current ones.

Andor.
New Coke comes to mind.
All Coke is revolting. Sticking “new” in the label just caused people to notice. Stick an “Old” label on the same stuff and your customers think they’ve scored a major victory.
4E D&D is another. Movie reboots often blow up and flop hard.
4E was badly sold, not a bad game.

Predator: Badlands
I dont think anyone cares to much about new Ravenloft now vs the old one. Beyond Curse of Strahd anyway.
Aside from the “thou shalt not change a jot or tickle” brigade not many people care about Ravenloft anyway. There are plenty of better horror RPGs available. The 2nd edition boxed set or anything remotely resembling it would never have sold. It was a boring mess of an attempt to compete with Vampire the Masquerade, and totally misunderstood the horror genre. CoS had the good sense to go back to the original module for inspiration, rather than the bad campaign setting.
Anemic, corporate, watered down slop tends to have that effect. Applies to music, games, books, RPGs anything really. What counts as slop is up to the consumer.
D&D was always corporate slop. It just needs to be corporate slop with contemporary appeal.

One thing I have learned by being around for a long time is it’s not always old stuff that is good and new stuff that is bad. Sometimes old stuff is bad and new stuff is good.
 
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Why are dragons color coded in EVERY D&D setting? Why are dwarves exactly the same in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms? Why are elves identical? Right down to having the same deity. Totally coincidental I suppose
Imagine if this wasn't the case with any of the D&D settings. A Dwarf from Greyhawk would have lore and species features that would set them apart from a Dwarf in the Forgotten Realms. The elves wouldn't be identical because like the Dwarves, their lore and species features would be different. There would be numerous Dwarf and Elf pantheons on every world. And so forth.

This would be a lot of work for the designers in both TSR and WoTC. :p So, you could say that they took the easy way out by making them all the same for every world in terms of species features and different when it came to their lore.
 

You can make them different if you want too - “our elves are different” is even a well known trope (tropes that are used too much are called cliches). But you are probably not going to want to different-ise everything in the PHB. That makes the setting lose focus. Eberron sometimes sails a bit too close to that reef.
 


Any IP that changes things (movies, games, beer, whatever) with the assumption that they can attract new consumers and keep the old ones are fools. Assumptions are the mother of all F ups.
Counterpoint: when was the last time a Bond film was culturally relevant? They have stuck stubbornly to the same formula (handsome while male actor, quippy dialogue, gadgets, Bond girl, supervillain with genius plan, title song, etc). The tropes were so well worn even the parodies have parodies at this point. And Brosman and Craig's attempt to "modernize" were very shallow adjustments. Which is why each Bond movie comes and goes with little fanfare. A blip of discussion on "who is the new Bond girl?" Or "what will they do different?" That eventually boils down to a mediocre box office and is quickly forgotten. It's been that way for 30 years at least.

That's what happens when you don't attract new people. You stick to the well worn formula. It becomes stale. Bland. Forgotten. The IP equivalent of a McDonald's on the highway: you know what to expect, but you also know it's not going to wow you.

So the question becomes: at what point do you decide that an IP should opt for McDonald's and be safe, reliable and boring? We already complain WotC is adverse to risk, but at the same time people demand they play the hits and don't change the formula. Don't just make another Moonraker, make Moonraker again with better set work.
 

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