D&D 5E (2024) Class Tier List 1 Year Later.

[EzekielRaiden]

Still don't get why you think Sorcerer is S-tier while Wizard is merely C.

Wizards have better spell options, far greater flexibility, more total spells both known and prepared, and the ability to swap out for spells they wish they had prepared, actually opening the door for real-life Batman Wizard, something which has been the eternal defense of the Wizard's breadth, that "Batman Wizard" isn't real and can't hurt you.

As a Sorcerer player currently, yes, metamagic is nice--but it is nowhere near as amazeballs as you present it to be. Subclass is nice, but it's been very small bits here and there, more or less equivalent to an origin feat with a tiny bit of extra oomph.

If Wizard is C-tier, Sorcerer is at absolute most B-tier. If Sorcerer is S-tier, Wizard is at absolute least A-tier. There just...is no other way around it. They are too much alike to be SO far apart.

 

[Zardnaar]

Still don't get why you think Sorcerer is S-tier while Wizard is merely C.

Wizards have better spell options, far greater flexibility, more total spells both known and prepared, and the ability to swap out for spells they wish they had prepared, actually opening the door for real-life Batman Wizard, something which has been the eternal defense of the Wizard's breadth, that "Batman Wizard" isn't real and can't hurt you.

As a Sorcerer player currently, yes, metamagic is nice--but it is nowhere near as amazeballs as you present it to be. Subclass is nice, but it's been very small bits here and there, more or less equivalent to an origin feat with a tiny bit of extra oomph.

If Wizard is C-tier, Sorcerer is at absolute most B-tier. If Sorcerer is S-tier, Wizard is at absolute least A-tier. There just...is no other way around it. They are too much alike to be SO far apart.

Its because tgey take to long to get good relative to other classes.

If it was a higher tier game they would be A or S subclass and level depending . Theres better spellcasters with more resources. Twin spell for example.

If youre 5MWD say level 5 they're also better. Also DM and campaign dependent more than other classes.

Right campaign and DM, less encounters the better they shoot up in usefulness more.

Theyre outclassed by most casters level 1-6. Peak martial as well. I dont like waiting to level 10 and 13/14 to get good.

Once thise new wizards come out I would kick them up a tier. Illusionist is good

 

[DrJawaPhD]

If Wizard is C-tier, Sorcerer is at absolute most B-tier. If Sorcerer is S-tier, Wizard is at absolute least A-tier. There just...is no other way around it. They are too much alike to be SO far apart.

Yeah totally agree but mostly this is a result of Zard trying to fill out the entire span with Best at S-Tier and Worst at D-Tier just because that's how Tier lists typically work.

Really it ought to be the latter of what you wrote above with Sorcerer at S-Tier, Wizard at A-Tier, and the worst classes as B-Tier, because in reality no classes are actually all that bad. Even the worst class (Ranger) is totally playable now and not really all that far behind the best class.

 

[FrogReaver]

I haven't had a chance to see a 2024 monk played, but I've heard elsewhere an they've overtuned them and they are quite strong not just compared to 2014!monks but compared to all the 2024 classes, but the tier ratings in this post from various trusted posters aren't showing that.

I'm more inclined to believe this post, but can someone explain how others think the 2024!Monk is now a top-tier martial?

Until they get deflect attacks at level 3 they can fill a bit squishy compared to most other classes.

For martials their damage is often a bit lower in comparison.

Many of their needed defensive features kick in a little late. Like their save bonuses.

If it was a high level campaign I’d probably want to be a monk first. If it’s a level 1-12 campaign monk isn’t my top choice, though not bad either.

IMO, lack of weapon masteries really hurts monk as well IMO.

 

[FrogReaver]

This is what I don't like about a Paladin, they really emphasize the martial side of the character.



I think if you want an Archer you should play a Fighter. Not saying you can't do it with a Paladin or a Ranger, but that just doesn't feel like what those classes should be about to me.

I am happy with the current Ranger, but I would agree the class mechanics are lacking and you really need the subclass to do the heavy lifting.

If we want to improve Ranger, what I would do is give them more spells, both more slots and access to more Wizard/Sorcerer type spells on their list, Cantrips as a basic part of the class (not something you have to give up Feat for) then add some abilities that boost casting mechanics. I think they could get rid of Extra attack to avoid making it OP. With Mastery and truestrike you would still have some attractive weapon combat options.

I think you just want everything to be a full caster with a sword

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah totally agree but mostly this is a result of Zard trying to fill out the entire span with Best at S-Tier and Worst at D-Tier just because that's how Tier lists typically work.

Really it ought to be the latter of what you wrote above with Sorcerer at S-Tier, Wizard at A-Tier, and the worst classes as B-Tier, because in reality no classes are actually all that bad. Even the worst class (Ranger) is totally playable now and not really all that far behind the best class.

Pretty much. If youre worse than another class you get knocked down the list.

If I changed the criteria eg unlimited options D woukd probably go away. Would still do Cs.

Wizard would be D level 1/2.

 

[FrogReaver]

Pretty much. If youre worse than another class you get knocked down the list.

If I changed the criteria eg unlimited options D woukd probably go away. Would still do Cs.

Wizard would be D level 1/2.

Level 1 Wizard vs level 1 Sorcerer.

• Sorcerer gets 4 cantrips, 2 spells known, 2 spell slots and Innate Sorcery.
• Wizard gets 3 cantrips, 6 spells known, 4 prepared. Ritual Casting of non-prepared spells. 2 spell slots + 1 from Arcane recovery and a better spell list.

I think Wizard is better at level 1.

I can't even say sorcerer is better at level 2 as wizard still can prepare alot more spells than sorcerers know, they still get ritual casting and arcane recovery still is giving them an extra spell slot along with expertise and a better spell list. I think they are mostly dead equal there as metamagic is really good.

I think it's level 3 where sorcerers pull ahead as their subclass level 3 features are just so much better than wizards while the metamagic gap continues to grow with another sorcery point every level.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah, ritual casting has great utility, and gives the wizard plenty of screen time out of combat. Sorcerers have little to do unless a fight breaks out. Especially if there is a bard in the party.

 

[Zardnaar]

Level 1 Wizard vs level 1 Sorcerer.

• Sorcerer gets 4 cantrips, 2 spells known, 2 spell slots and Innate Sorcery.
• Wizard gets 3 cantrips, 6 spells known, 4 prepared. Ritual Casting of non-prepared spells. 2 spell slots + 1 from Arcane recovery and a better spell list.

I think Wizard is better at level 1.

I can't even say sorcerer is better at level 2 as wizard still can prepare alot more spells than sorcerers know, they still get ritual casting and arcane recovery still is giving them an extra spell slot along with expertise and a better spell list. I think they are mostly dead equal there as metamagic is really good.

I think it's level 3 where sorcerers pull ahead as their subclass level 3 features are just so much better than wizards while the metamagic gap continues to grow with another sorcery point every level.

Probably wouldn't argue to much. Sorcerers still a low level primary caster.

Warlocks best caster lvl 2 imho.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, ritual casting has great utility, and gives the wizard plenty of screen time out of combat. Sorcerers have little to do unless a fight breaks out. Especially if there is a bard in the party.

A bit DM and campaign dependent. Sorcerers decent in social pillar. Thats s better pillar.

Exploration pillars often neglected. Socials always good.