D&D General Christmas elves in dnd?

[Hriston]

I thought Goblins and Gnomes were pretty well defined...in song!

Everyone just needs to read Paracelsus, and they will understand the difference.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Everyone just needs to read Paracelsus, and they will understand the difference.

D&D is 50 years old at this point, I think it's probably OK to say that its goblins and gnomes have their own identity.

 

[Hriston]

D&D is 50 years old at this point, I think it's probably OK to say that its goblins and gnomes have their own identity.

Did somebody say it wasn't okay to say that?

 

[JamesLFlowers]

I like the North Pole shown in "Red One". You have multiple species working together to make the North Pole run.

 

[Hriston]

The possible derivation of the term gnome (Latin gnomus, gnomos) from a proposed Latin gēnomos, itself representing a Greek *γηνόμος, for which this Wikipedia article gives a literal translation of "earth dweller", is entirely conjectural and not substantiated by any known prior attestation in literature. All anyone knows is the word first appears in Paracelsus' book which was published in 1566 and may be his original invention.

 

[Yaarel]

Forest gnomes are recluses who live in trees and talk to animals, they're not really pastoral in the way halflings are.

Characteristics like rural (pastoral) versus wilderness (reclusive), feel cultural, rather than species. Even if, the cultural distinctions can be significant for a concept.

I'd argue halflings are the weak point. Both types of main gnomes lasted into 5.24, but halflings? They're so poor at carrying subraces they lost their ones because there was no meat to "Halfling", "Halfling but a bit dwarfy" and "Halfling but a bit elfy"

The thing about Halflings is how Human they are. Sneaky and Lucky, can be Human backgrounds. They are easily a Human ethnicity, and Tolkien tended to euhemerize the Hob this way.

Let's not damage dwarves or gnomes, who have pretty solid fiction to both of them, due to the lack of flavour of the halfling.

Both Dwarf and Gnome can feel earthily Elemental.

The Viking Period Dwarf is fully humansize (Medium) and relates to fates, shamanic magic, and destructive magic items. (But Saxon Dwarf is short, waist-high.) The Romantic Period Gnome is normally knee-high (Tiny), and explicitly is any land area that Humans inhabit.

But even these distinctions could be culturally ethnic.

 

[Yaarel]

The possible derivation of the term gnome (Latin gnomus, gnomos) from a proposed Latin gēnomos, itself representing a Greek *γηνόμος, for which this Wikipedia article gives a literal translation of "earth dweller", is entirely conjectural and not substantiated by any known prior attestation in literature. All anyone knows is the word first appears in Paracelsus' book which was published in 1566 and may be his original invention.

The Greek term "nomos" means "division", a portion, a measure: such as relating to economy, astronomy.

The Greeks also use the term to mean a division of land, the property of a plot land, a field designated for herding, and so on.

And when Paracelsus coined the Latin term "gnomus" (probably an alteration of ge-nomos), he and others used the term when translating various land beings into Latin.

Moreover Paracelsus himself likes to blend and alter Latin and Greek elsewhere. Example, he uses for a Sylph, the terms for "sylphes" and "sylvestris" interchangeably, where both relate to the term nympha silvestris, literally a "forest nymph".

In his writings, Paracelsus clearly has forest beings in mind, despite referring to what we might think of as "air elementals". I guess, he views the forest nymphs as embodying the concept of breezes thru the leaves of trees. In any case, the awkwardness evidences how Paracelsus is referring to his contemporary folkbeliefs even when trying to systematize them into an elemental organization.

 

[Yaarel]

Part of the ambiguity is the term "Fey".

Creatures that are clearly Elemental (nixie : undine :: hob : gnome) can be called "Fey" (fairie) because they are "magical" beings. Arguably, nymph and satyr are Greek "Celestial", but English folkbeliefs understand them as "Fey".

It is possible that a D&D Gnome is an Earth Elemental who inhabits the Feywild.

The 5e 2024 Feywild is an alternate reality, a parallel Material Plane energized by Positivity. It can be inhabited by various creature types, in the same way that Shadowfell can be. The Elementals there might gain the Fey creature types. However in the case of the Gnome, the Humanoid creature type overrides both the Elemental and Fey creature types. Even so, perhaps there are monster statblocks that have the Gnome be Elemental or Fey.

The D&D tinkering Rock Gnome, emerged from the human-inhabited land relating to the tools of farms, including blacksmithing, and the machinery of mills. (The homes of Swiss clock makers feel spot on.) The shoemakers extend to the toymakers. Hence the gadgeteers.


For the "nisse" Gnome, I prefer using the Border Ethereal plane for all animistic activity.

Most of the Norse beings are Elementals (mountains, waterfalls, snowstorms, thunderstorms, etcetera). The mind of the respective nature feature can project to form of a remote presence in the Border Ethereal, that can invisibly observe and interact with the Material Plane. I would like to see "Ethereal" as a new creature type. Or perhaps these ethereals are "Elemental" in the sense that ether is the fifth element. Or perhaps, this Border Ethereal elementalism is exactly what the term "primal" means. I would like a term to specify the creatures of the Border Ethereal.

 

[Hriston]

This thread is in the D&D General forum asking how one would render Christmas elves in the "various edition styles". The early, so-called "old school" editions are just as relevant to that question today as more recent editions.

 

[Hriston]

The point of referencing The Father Christmas Letters, which seems to have been missed, is that Christmas elves are not a folkloric tradition. They are a literary invention of the mid-19th century and a product of the decisions of authors and artists who have since chosen to make a subject of them. That the nisse probably influenced and was in return likely influenced by American Santa Claus, evolving into the Julenisse, does not make them the origin of Christmas elves.