D&D 5E (2024) A critical analysis of 2024's revised classes

[EzekielRaiden]

What I have noticed, having lived through 5/6 edition changes, is just how little anger there is. Not that anyone is saying "everything about 5.5 is wonderful", but most criticism has been measured and reasoned. Compare that to the arguments about 4e that are still raging till this day.

Of course, the OP was channelling enough anger for everyone.

I mean, people were saying that for literal years after 5.0 was published.

I literally got infracted on another forum because I got testy when someone else said, to my (internet) face, that it wasn't possible for people to not like 5e because 5e had something to offer absolutely all D&D players. That's not an exaggeration. It was very literally the claim that because 5e has something for everyone, nobody can really dislike it.

As someone who has several beefs with how 5e was playtested, designed, marketed, and discussed? Yeah, that one kinda rankled just a little. Being openly treated like you don't exist and then slapped for getting angry that someone said you don't exist...not exactly fun.

As for the anger? It's definitely there. I've seen multiple people getting, as a friend of mine would say, "@$$-mad" about the "cash grab" or the "ruining" of 5e. The anger was especially there for Tasha's and some of the books in the 2021-2023 period. Have you forgotten the "Disneyfication" thread, or the folks who screamed bloody murder when it looked like the Sorcerer might get a feature that would put the Wizard's supremacy into question (and then full-on gleefully danced upon its grave when they won)? There's plenty of anger there. It's just that the two most virulently vocal minorities--Wizard supremacists and diehard 3.x fans--haven't been activated by any of the changes yet. Soon as that line gets crossed, you'll have the 4e edition war all over again, complete with rampant falsehoods, active antagonism/baiting, and a full-court-press effort to destroy anything and everything that isn't perfectly in line with their vision.

 

[Bae'zel]

As for the anger? It's definitely there. I've seen multiple people getting, as a friend of mine would say, "@$$-mad" about the "cash grab" or the "ruining" of 5e. The anger was especially there for Tasha's and some of the books in the 2021-2023 period. Have you forgotten the "Disneyfication" thread, or the folks who screamed bloody murder when it looked like the Sorcerer might get a feature that would put the Wizard's supremacy into question (and then full-on gleefully danced upon its grave when they won)? There's plenty of anger there. It's just that the two most virulently vocal minorities--Wizard supremacists and diehard 3.x fans--haven't been activated by any of the changes yet. Soon as that line gets crossed, you'll have the 4e edition war all over again, complete with rampant falsehoods, active antagonism/baiting, and a full-court-press effort to destroy anything and everything that isn't perfectly in line with their vision.

Oh yeah the RAGE that this hobby contains is very obvious. Has been for decades. People typing utter venom at each other about elf games with the same self-righeous indignation as people debating politics or religion.

We've all done it. I've gotten riled up over strangers' perceived antagonism towards me for defending a game. A GAME.

I understand folks who have careers tied to this stuff. But regular consumers? What in the hell is wrong with us?

It reminds me of my first experiences at a game store as a young teenager and meeting utterly condescending and mean-spirited adults playing warhammer or D&D. It was awful, thinking "at last, I'm finally meeting my own kind" and they're just like the bullies at school.

We're a strange lot.

 

[Horwath]

Oh yeah the RAGE that this hobby contains is very obvious. Has been for decades. People typing utter venom at each other about elf games with the same self-righeous indignation as people debating politics or religion.

We've all done it. I've gotten riled up over strangers' perceived antagonism towards me for defending a game. A GAME.

I understand folks who have careers tied to this stuff. But regular consumers? What in the hell is wrong with us?

It reminds me of my first experiences at a game store as a young teenager and meeting utterly condescending and mean-spirited adults playing warhammer or D&D. It was awful, thinking "at last, I'm finally meeting my own kind" and they're just like the bullies at school.

We're a strange lot.

I think that is just humans be humaning.
We D&D fans or "nerds" are relatively polite compare to other fans.
I have seen Startrek fans at each other throats at conventions, just them, not even Startrek vs Starwars, haha!.

Have you seen football fans in Europe or South America?
it's also "just a game".

 

[Bae'zel]

I think that is just humans be humaning.
We D&D fans or "nerds" are relatively polite compare to other fans.
I have seen Startrek fans at each other throats at conventions, just them, not even Startrek vs Starwars, haha!.

Have you seen football fans in Europe or South America?
it's also "just a game".

Very true, I just watched a compilation video on Reddit of sports fans punch and smashing TVs in anger over televised games.

 

[billd91]

Very true, I just watched a compilation video on Reddit of sports fans punch and smashing TVs in anger over televised games.

Just wait for tabletop RPGs and boardgames to start appearing on gambling apps.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Oh yeah the RAGE that this hobby contains is very obvious. Has been for decades. People typing utter venom at each other about elf games with the same self-righeous indignation as people debating politics or religion.

We've all done it. I've gotten riled up over strangers' perceived antagonism towards me for defending a game. A GAME.

I understand folks who have careers tied to this stuff. But regular consumers? What in the hell is wrong with us?

It reminds me of my first experiences at a game store as a young teenager and meeting utterly condescending and mean-spirited adults playing warhammer or D&D. It was awful, thinking "at last, I'm finally meeting my own kind" and they're just like the bullies at school.

We're a strange lot.

Yeah, really interesting with how pecking orders can form in the darndest places. Intellectual bullying was pretty alive at some LGS I used to go to as well.

 

[ECMO3]

There's plenty of anger there. It's just that the two most virulently vocal minorities--Wizard supremacists and diehard 3.x fans--haven't been activated by any of the changes yet

I don't know about all that. The "Wizard supremacists" as it were seem to be pretty content, passive and peaceful to me. It is those insisting that Fighters are more powerful that seem to be the most "angry" among the virulent and vocal posters when it comes to class warfare.

Oddly enough, as far as classes it is seems only Fighters that cause this reaction, other martials and other weakish non-casters like Rogues, Barbarians or 2014 Monks don't seem to generate as much anger as Fighters do, even though they are weaker than Fighters. People complain about Rangers a lot too, but not with the same anger as they do about Fighters IME.

 

[CreamCloud0]

nope, don't make the snippy comment that you want to make.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I don't know about all that. The "Wizard supremacists" as it were seem to be pretty content, passive and peaceful to me.

Why wouldn't they be? They're getting exactly what they asked for. They're being catered to.

You yourself are one of them. You have straight-up argued that that's what the game should be: casters that are just better than non-casters. Of course you'd find it peaceful!

It is those insisting that Fighters are more powerful that seem to be the most "angry" among the virulent and vocal posters when it comes to class warfare.

Why wouldn't they be? See above.

You act like it's a surprise that the people getting shortchanged are annoyed and the people getting actively courted are pleased.

 

[Clint_L]

I don't know about all that. The "Wizard supremacists" as it were seem to be pretty content, passive and peaceful to me. It is those insisting that Fighters are more powerful that seem to be the most "angry" among the virulent and vocal posters when it comes to class warfare.

I’ve often wondered about this. Fighters have always been one of the stronger classes in 5e, yet any thread about martial/caster balance tends to focus on them.

I am also struck by how much those discussions tend to focus on top tier abilities, despite those being a negligible part of the game, more aspirational than anything else. Like, sure, a wizard can potentially get wish, but they are highly unlikely to ever get close to it.

Oddly enough, as far as classes it is seems only Fighters that cause this reaction, other martials and other weakish non-casters like Rogues, Barbarians or 2014 Monks don't seem to generate as much anger as Fighters do, even though they are weaker than Fighters. People complain about Rangers a lot too, but not with the same anger as they do about Fighters IME.

Yeah, I’m not sure what is up with that. It’s pretty notable in thread after thread. It’s especially surprising since the 2024 rules came out; they were extremely good to fighters.