D&D General I Just Want To Teleport and Stab Things

[mellored]

Also, while my desire is a melee combatant, a subclass that only works in melee probably isn't good. So, if you attack a creature within 30ft of where your teleport ends, you can sneak attack them without advantage.

I wouldn't go futher than 30', but sure.

The BA attack might be too much, but it feels right so IDK. maybe it needs to wait until level nine.

I don't see a need for BA attack. You can already get one as a feat. Plus Nick mastery.

Also, while my desire is a melee combatant, a subclass that only works in melee probably isn't good.

I think being able to disengage + dash + range attack is a too much. You could auto-win against any melee combatant. Especially as you scale the teleport distance (which seems fitting).
I've done it with a wild heat barbarian. Made the DM sad.

Now if an ally is in melee, then the DM can attack someone, but you already get to sneak attack at that point. So not needed.

Then at level 9, you can also teleport when you use Uncanny Dodge, and whenever you teleport you can hide or attack as part of the same reaction, or as a bonus action.

I definitely wouldn't allow unlimited reaction attacks on a rogue.

Maybe on a teleport fighter subclass?

 

[Steampunkette]

Easy answer:

Just give them an archetype that lets them ditch bonus action Disengage for bonus action Teleport limited to their speed. So if you use Boots of Striding and Springing or take the Dash action you can extend your teleport distance.

Functionally it's practically the same thing. You move from point to point and you are not harmed in the intervening distance. You're just adding "Get across pits or up heights" and "Get past occupied squares" without forcing an Athletics or Acrobatics check.

Ran this past a few other designers who are playing Tomb of Annihilation for me and the big sticking points were Wall of Force, Grappled, and Cage Lock Bypass.

1) Wall of Force can block it. Why? 'Cause it's not Misty Step, it's a class feature teleport that can have it's own requirements.

2) Grappled reduces movement speed to 0, so you can't teleport.

3) Does let you peek out between bars and teleport past them, but that's less effective than making a skill check to unlock the cage to get your party out of the trap.

The confusing bit for them was was: It still uses your movement like disengage does. It doesn't give you an extra 30ft movement on your turn. You're just using a bonus action to turn your movement into a teleport.

Tadaaaaah.

 

[SkidAce]

RIght. Though that's level 6, and still has some limitations.

One more point for the Cartographer though, they can teleport twice each turn.
10' in, stab, 10' away.
Or maybe 30' to an ally, 10' to an enemy, and stab.
3 times with the boots, and/or Misty Step

Well... True. Since it obsolete cunning action, then your effectively spending 2 levels on it. So that's probably fine.

Rogue Subclass: Blink Blade
The Blink Blade is a master of spatial displacement, a combatant who views distance as a mere suggestion rather than a physical law. While other rogues rely on hiding behind tapestries or lurking in corners, you exist in the "in-between." By fracturing your presence across the battlefield, you become a flickering ghost of steel—disappearing from a predator's reach only to reappear as the killing blow at their back.

Level 3:
Blink Step: You can teleport as a bonus action at-will. The distance is equal to 5 feet per sneak attack die you have. (10' up to 50').
Sudden Stab: If you end any teleport adjacent to a creature, you gain advantage on your next melee attack against it before the start of your next turn.

Level 9:
Instinctive Step: When you use your Uncanny Dodge feature, you may immediately teleport 15 feet as part of that same reaction.
Long Step: You can cast Dimension Door once per short rest.

Level 13:
Teleport Control: You are a master of travel, always going where you want. Whenever an effect would teleport you (including hostile spells or forced portals), you choose the ending location within the effect's range.
Chain Strike: You can cast Steel Wind Strike once per short rest, increasing the damage to a number of D10's equal to your sneak attack dice (7d10 at level 13). You can also use Cunning Stikes with those dice. Dexterity is your spell casting modifier.

Level 17:
Perpetual Step: You no longer walk; you simply arrive. Whenever you would move for any reason—including forced movement—you can choose to teleport that same distance instead.
True Teleport: You can cast Teleport once per long rest, but you can only target yourself.

"yoink"

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I wouldn't go futher than 30', but sure.

I don't see a need for BA attack. You can already get one as a feat. Plus Nick mastery.

It's a solid but not huge for a rogue upgrade. I will not ever design a class or sublcass feature around whether there is a similar feat benefit. I don't think anyone ever should. They're separate things.
Like...you can get damage reduction from a feat, does that mean subclasses should never give damage reduction? No, obviously not.

I think being able to disengage + dash + range attack is a too much. You could auto-win against any melee combatant. Especially as you scale the teleport distance (which seems fitting).
I've done it with a wild heat barbarian. Made the DM sad.

The DM should know better than to bank anything on purely melee combatants, but yeah...adding a bonus action attack to the rogue just isn't a big deal IMO. Especially if we go with the level 9 upgrade rather than putting it at level 3.

Now if an ally is in melee, then the DM can attack someone, but you already get to sneak attack at that point. So not needed.

I definitely wouldn't allow unlimited reaction attacks on a rogue.

Maybe on a teleport fighter subclass?

Eh, the attacks after teleporting isn't that important, but it also isn't nearly as big a deal as you're making it out to be. Give the Swashbuckler the ability to attack as a reaction when an enemy misses them with a melee attack, and it's fine. Upgrade it to be doable as part of the reaction used with Uncanny Dodge, say at level 13, and it's really cool but not gonna break anything.

Easy answer:

Just give them an archetype that lets them ditch bonus action Disengage for bonus action Teleport limited to their speed. So if you use Boots of Striding and Springing or take the Dash action you can extend your teleport distance.

Functionally it's practically the same thing. You move from point to point and you are not harmed in the intervening distance. You're just adding "Get across pits or up heights" and "Get past occupied squares" without forcing an Athletics or Acrobatics check.

Ran this past a few other designers who are playing Tomb of Annihilation for me and the big sticking points were Wall of Force, Grappled, and Cage Lock Bypass.

1) Wall of Force can block it. Why? 'Cause it's not Misty Step, it's a class feature teleport that can have it's own requirements.

2) Grappled reduces movement speed to 0, so you can't teleport.

3) Does let you peek out between bars and teleport past them, but that's less effective than making a skill check to unlock the cage to get your party out of the trap.

The confusing bit for them was was: It still uses your movement like disengage does. It doesn't give you an extra 30ft movement on your turn. You're just using a bonus action to turn your movement into a teleport.

Tadaaaaah.

I don't think I would go with disengage allowing you to then teleport using your speed. That is way too much cost.

And I would specifically word it so that is can bypass anything that misty step bypasses, including wording it so that you can teleport a number of feet equal to your normal speed. No way should grappling stop you from using it.

I mean there just isn't any reason to try to grind it down into something that no one will want lol just let the cool thing be cool.

I'm fine with a bonus action teleport that doesn't use your movement, or a teleport that uses your movement, but not one that costs both unless it is supposed to be a minor part of the character.

 

[Steampunkette]

I don't think I would go with disengage allowing you to then teleport using your speed. That is way too much cost.

And I would specifically word it so that is can bypass anything that misty step bypasses, including wording it so that you can teleport a number of feet equal to your normal speed. No way should grappling stop you from using it.

I mean there just isn't any reason to try to grind it down into something that no one will want lol just let the cool thing be cool.

I'm fine with a bonus action teleport that doesn't use your movement, or a teleport that uses your movement, but not one that costs both unless it is supposed to be a minor part of the character.

It is, definitely, a cost.

Too much of one... wibble wobbles hand

It does seem too high for what you want, though, which is totally understandable.

Personally I like it because the Cunning Action improvement of any Rogue Archetype is, essentially, a ribbon feature alongside their main option. Like how Masterminds get to Help as a bonus action -and- a mess of functionality. Or the Thief gets Fast Hands -and- Second Story Work. Or the Arcane Trickster gets Mage Hand Legerdemain -and- Spellcasting.

It also functions as a sturdy base for later improvements. Like allowing you to dash -and- teleport as a bonus action. Though you're right, in my opinion, about teleporting out of grapples and restraints.

Plus it means you could break up your movement as a series of teleports. Teleport away from the fighter and over to the mage. Sneak Attack. Teleport behind your fighter. And as you extend your movement with magic items and spells... Or feats...

But mostly: It doesn't grant additional movement like a half-dash plus disengage option. By manipulating your movement, rather than just adding to it. Which means you'll sometimes still prefer to take the Dash as a bonus action rather than teleporting based on the distance you need to clear.

Have to wonder what the other subclass ability at 3rd level would be, though. I think the most obvious answer is to make your first attack after a teleport be at advantage, since that fits narratively and offsets the use of bonus action for not-off-handing...

But that also feels kinda easy. Also doesn't really "Help" much when you've already got advantage and thus sneak-attack functionality. Maybe something like....

---

Phasing
As a bonus action you convert your movement speed into a Phasing speed until the start of your next turn. While phasing you can teleport to an unoccupied square that you can see. Subtract the distance traveled from your remaining Phasing speed. So long as you have Phasing speed remaining, you can continue to teleport as part of your movement.

While Phasing your are immune to the grappled and restrained conditions.

Phaseblade
If you miss an attack that would qualify as a sneak attack while Phasing, you may select another creature that is within your remaining phasing speed of your target and reroll the attack against your new target. On a successful hit, this attack becomes a sneak attack.

Subtract that distance from your phasing speed.

---

And hey. Look. Even works on Ranged Attacks. Throw a dagger at a guy, miss, teleport the flying dagger to your target's buddy!

But, y'know, YMMV. I'd definitely suggest talking to your DM/Players about what your table's threshhold of "Too Much" is.

 

[Tigris]

Since you talk about homebrewing anyway allow me to give you another idea.


I know making subclasses is easier but why not make a new class.


But instead of a class focused on teleporting, having a class focused on "falling onto the enemy" like the dragoon in final fantasy. Like in this Final fantasy rpg (based on pf1): Dragoon


Of course you would not copy the idea exactly but taking the fall damage base idea and then making 1 teleportation based subclass. I imagine it something like this:

• Acrobat /Circus Athlete (or some synonym)
• Dex or str based you get either acrobatic or athletics +3 other skills
• Proficiency with 1 handed weapons and light armor
• D8 hit dice.
• Saving throws dex and str? (Maybe something better?)
• At level 1 you get a choose from 2 choice (similar to druid and cleric 5.24). Either you get medium and heavy armor profieciency or you can use acrobatics for jumping.
• "Death from above" is your main feature: you can ignore fall damage (to some degree scaling per level) and that you can transform fall damage instead to bonus damage on the next attack on this turn against a creature next to your landing spot.
• You also have some ressource (like 2 points per short rest on level 2, 3 at 3 and 5 at 5) which you can use either for improving acrobatics or atheltics check, or giving extra speed this tuen, or to get extra damage for an attack for squares horizontally traveled (for cases you cant jump because the room is small)
• Other class features are extra movementspeed (level 2 and improve on 5 and later)
• Expertise on acrobatics or athletics (and maybe 1 more) at level 3.
• Weapon mastery with 2 weapons at level 1 (and maybe a fighting style at level 2) which you can switch on level up.
• At level 5 you dont gain multi attack but just more bonus speed, more ressources and "hard to catch" which gives opportunity attacks against you disadvantage and creatures you hit cant do any of them until the end of your next turn.
• On level 3 each subclass allows you through other means to make easier use of your main feature.
• The dragoon subclass allows the use of 2 handed weapons also with the class feature and focuses on athletics and jumping with it. (Str based)
• The wrestler subclass is grappler based allows you to take creatures grabed with you when jumping and letting them take fall damage (str based).
• The wallrunner subclass gives you climbspeed equal to your speed (base speed + extra speed from class features) gives more speed and allows you jump from walls pillars etc when climbing them.
• And the teleport subclass allows you to transform your movement into a teleport.
• All of them should have some extra use for the ressources and some way (maybe with the ressource (to deal some extra damage without jumping (like teleport to several enemies hitting them all with an attack, or run with a grappled creature into a wall/anither creature etc.)
• At higher levels you learn how to attack during a fall and get combat advantage if attacking an enemy from above.
• Level 11 maybe gives you extra attack such that you could do thanks to all extra movement 2 such stunts (also helps with rooms with limited heights)

Just some early sketch but I think this could be cool and the first 3 levels have the main class relative strong having the subclass mainly for enabling the main damage feature which also means the subclass can put all level 3 power just into teleporting. And then from level 5+ the mainclass does not give much features/power such that the subclasses can have a bigger power budget making the different subclasses more distinct and focused on their cool thing like teleporting.

 

[DammitVictor]

It's weird to me that people are saying Nightcrawler isn't a valid idea for a D&D character or class, especially with his longer range teleportation abilities being clipped.

Like, wasn't the Eladrin Swordmage exactly that for almost a whole edition?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I kinda like the idea of teleporting as part

It's weird to me that people are saying Nightcrawler isn't a valid idea for a D&D character or class, especially with his longer range teleportation abilities being clipped.

Like, wasn't the Eladrin Swordmage exactly that for almost a whole edition?

Wasn't that the forbidden edition whose name shall never mentioned (except all the times it does?)

I must admit, sometimes I like the idea of teleport being something reserved more for the Paragon Tier of D&D for my sense of "verisimilitude" or whatever emotion that is. But dang, it's so much fun to zap around the battlefield, why force people to wait to have fun?

Mustrum "4Ever" Ridcully

 

[Tigris]

I must admit, sometimes I like the idea of teleport being something reserved more for the Paragon Tier of D&D for my sense of "verisimilitude" or whatever emotion that is. But dang, it's so much fun to zap around the battlefield, why force people to wait to have fun?

Since most people play low levels in games like D&D it makes, as you said, sense to not have them wait too long for the fun.


Also it does make a lot more sense to cap long range travel to paragon. To have heroic tier more local/confined and then in paragon tier gain a sense of range.


Like how travel rituals in 4e first only allowed 20 square teleport, than teleport to anplace they were before which has a teleportation circle, later they could create their own circles and only even later they could teleport even to places they have never seen.

 

[DEFCON 1]

It's weird to me that people are saying Nightcrawler isn't a valid idea for a D&D character or class, especially with his longer range teleportation abilities being clipped.

Like, wasn't the Eladrin Swordmage exactly that for almost a whole edition?

Are they saying it isn't valid in D&D on the whole... or only not valid in 5E because there are currently no ways to acquire the abilities of Nightcrawler without having to take very specific classes/subclasses/features in combination, most of which have the 'port abilities at levels that the original poster does not find tenable?

Based upon the original premise of the ask and their responses to the suggestions put forth... it looks to me that I do not think a Nightcrawler 'port build at early levels is really achievable in the manner desired using current WotC-made 5E mechanics, no matter what combinations are put together. There's always something missing (either not low enough in level, or abilities spread out across the game that can't be combined and put into a single character.)

Thus to acquire a build like that, it seems to me one would need to do one of two things... either add in third-party or house rules to a potential 5E build to build the character the way one would want it, or play another version of D&D or another game that would allow one to do it without needing to house-rule. So the question then becomes what is more acceptable-- 3PP/house rules in 5E, or switching games? Based upon responses... it seems like creating a house-ruled "blink blade" type of subclass for 5E has the best chance of working out the way the OP desires.