Maintaining your secret identity

[Ruin Explorer]

What happens when they tell you to do something you don't agree with?

I mean, where does an 800lb gorilla sit? Wherever it wants.

It's the same situation here. You say "No" and they say "Ok" or they try and politely and like grownups make their case to you until you either agree (or agree to some limited form of it) or get bored and leave. What are they going to do, blackmail you? They push that even an inch too far and not only are they potentially personally dead (and remember, 95% of people are massive cowards, including the sort of people who would be sent to negotiate with you, even if you're terribly nice, they're probably going to constantly be thinking about how you could kill them with a glance), but you might level cities if they pushed your buttons hard enough.

The reality is two-fold:

1) If you operate based out of a country for more than a few months, that country's intelligence services will work out who your secret identity is.

2) Intelligence services do leak, but most don't leak easily or constantly. Your identity would have to be compartmentalized at the highest levels. Also they'd be working extra-hard to prevent any leaks here, because it's literally the only hold they have on you.

They have to work with you, if you want a secret identity, you kind of have to work with them at least a bit.

I do think any identity will eventually be discovered, but it'll happen a lot sooner without major people helping you.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yes, I honestly can’t think of a current world government with whom I think this is a good idea.

Really? Most governments have shown they're willing and able to keep secrets for decades, even a century or more. Here in the UK we're still keeping massive and largely needless secrets about Northern Ireland, decades after the peace agreement, for example.

 

[jian]

Really? Most governments have shown they're willing and able to keep secrets for decades, even a century or more. Here in the UK we're still keeping massive and largely needless secrets about Northern Ireland, decades after the peace agreement, for example.

I don’t think keeping a secret this unprecedented is anywhere near guaranteed, but I also meant I can’t think of a government whom I’d trust to use the powers responsibly or react well if Superman disagrees. Certainly not the UK, Canada, US, or anywhere else, really.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I also meant I can’t think of a government whom I’d trust to use the powers responsibly or react well if Superman disagrees. Certainly not the UK, Canada, US, or anywhere else, really.

I don't think the intelligence services are quite as outright stupid as you suggest. If they didn't "react well", can you explain, in detail, and with specifics not generalities, what you think they could possibly do? They certainly don't know anything about Kryptonite or Earth's Yellow Sun, because you (superman-like person) don't either. Yeah Kier Starmer might throw a tantrum because you weren't willing to throw Zack Polanski into the sun for him, or whatever, but what power-play options does he have? Absolutely none. The only choice is negotiation.

 

[Morrus]

What are they going to do, blackmail you? They push that even an inch too far and not only are they potentially personally dead (and remember, 95% of people are massive cowards, including the sort of people who would be sent to negotiate with you, even if you're terribly nice, they're probably going to constantly be thinking about how you could kill them with a glance), but you might level cities if they pushed your buttons hard enough.

This appears to be your answer to everything in this thread. As I said before when you commented that the answer was extreme violence--no, I'm not going to level any cities or murder any anybody. Honestly, you're starting to sound a little dangerous!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This appears to be your answer to everything in this thread. As I said before when you commented that the answer was extreme violence--no, I'm not going to level any cities or murder any anybody. Honestly, you're starting to sound a little dangerous!

I've met humans.

When they get upset enough, bad things happen, and for most people, the only things ultimately stopping them from doing worse are:

A) They care deeply about people around them.

and

B) They're afraid of the consequences of doing something bad (for themselves and others).

For some people personal morality independent of the above may factor in, but power corrupts, and we can see from billionaires today that morality is not a major factor in any of their personalities. In fact it would be straightforward to describe most of them as "totally amoral".

You keep proposing that governments could twist their arms or whatever, but that's a limited path. The moment you threaten a kind, rational person's family with harm, is the moment that suddenly they're thinking about a lot of options available to them which were not previously available to them.

How do you think you, as say, some civil service bureaucrat, or worse, god-help-us, half-witted soundbite-spewing politician, would successfully blackmail Superman? What leverage do you have, exactly? How many times can you use that leverage? Bearing in mind, this Superman is not god's own boy scout, but a normal human being. Better hope Supes-equivalent is a Quaker, I guess!

 

[MarkB]

I don't think the intelligence services are quite as outright stupid as you suggest. If they didn't "react well", can you explain, in detail, and with specifics not generalities, what you think they could possibly do?

Stop concealing my secret identity.

You get that this was the bargain under discussion, right? Work as their agent in return for active assistance in keeping one's identity a secret. Not knowing what they can do if you break that bargain seems a little disingenuous on your part.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Stop concealing my secret identity.

You get that this was the bargain under discussion, right? Work as their agent in return for active assistance in keeping one's identity a secret. Not knowing what they can do if you break that bargain seems a little disingenuous on your part.

I was assuming we all took that for granted. It's not disingenuous, I just had more respect for people's intelligence than you apparently do.

Them stopping concealing it means they have no more leverage or control at all, because they have nothing else. Then you are free to act as you will.

So that's not really an option, is it? That's a fail state for both sides. That might work once or twice, in an extreme situation, but it's unlikely to continue to work for very long if they keep trying it. Instead of trying blackmail, they'd want to present you with tailored arguments worked up to feed in to your personality and beliefs (which they'd be studying the hell out of). It'd be a lot easier to manipulate a superman than to try and bully or blackmail one. Unless, god help us, we have some super-pervert on our hands, but let's just... not go there.

 

[GreyLord]

What happens when they tell you to do something you don't agree with?

I simply refuse to do it.

If you had someone with the powers of Superman, would you simply toss them away because they refused one type of action?

The last thing you want to do is to lose that asset. Even if you don't use it, as long as that asset is in you power/affections/advisement, they are not working for your enemies. Toss them out...and that's a wild card most governments would not want to deal with.

Sort of like a Nuclear Weapon (but probably better, Supes can go to outer space and grab a massive asteroid and toss from way on high to massive speeds causing a nuclear type explosion, then go off and do it all again, and that's just a small example of what he could do). Even if you are never going to use it, you never give your nukes to someone else. Even if they no longer work, you still keep them close.

 

[Morrus]

I've met humans.

When they get upset enough, bad things happen, and for most people, the only things ultimately stopping them from doing worse are:

A) They care deeply about people around them.

and

B) They're afraid of the consequences of doing something bad (for themselves and others).

For some people personal morality independent of the above may factor in, but power corrupts, and we can see from billionaires today that morality is not a major factor in any of their personalities. In fact it would be straightforward to describe most of them as "totally amoral".

You keep proposing that governments could twist their arms or whatever, but that's a limited path. The moment you threaten a kind, rational person's family with harm, is the moment that suddenly they're thinking about a lot of options available to them which were not previously available to them.

How do you think you, as say, some civil service bureaucrat, or worse, god-help-us, half-witted soundbite-spewing politician, would successfully blackmail Superman? What leverage do you have, exactly? How many times can you use that leverage? Bearing in mind, this Superman is not god's own boy scout, but a normal human being. Better hope Supes-equivalent is a Quaker, I guess!

The question is not what Superman could do, it’s what you would do. And it sounds a lot like you’re saying that you’d turn into psychopath!