Daggerheart General Thread [+]

[Vael]

Is Daggerheart too bespoke in its class design? That is, would DH work "better" if it was more generic and embraced the domains more as mix-and-match talent trees?

I am just thinking about different campaign frame and how ultimately you have to either create new classes or bend the frame to match the core.

Yes and no.

The downside, which was pointed out by the designers themselves, is how much front-loading and increased complexity open domain choice becomes, as players have to weigh which set of 21 cards to have access to during character generation. I really like how beginner friendly Daggerheart is, and part of that is how it locks down some choices. I could see the analysis paralysis creep in if after class choice, you had to choose one or more of your domains.

Secondly, having a bespoke model gives Daggerheart its own identity separate from DnD while still feeling DnD. Daggerheart wizards can heal, Daggerheart Brawlers (ie Monks) are purely non-magical ... I think that is also important to give Daggerheart its own flavour.

OTOH, you're not wrong that a more open design would be versatile. But you are paying for said versatility. I could see a Sci-fi version or "Advanced Daggerheart" using a more open model, but tbh, I'm happy with how Daggerheart landed.

 

[Aldarc]

Is Daggerheart too bespoke in its class design? That is, would DH work "better" if it was more generic and embraced the domains more as mix-and-match talent trees?

I am just thinking about different campaign frame and how ultimately you have to either create new classes or bend the frame to match the core.

This is honestly and frustratingly where I have been for months now. There have been a number of campaign ideas that I had for running something with Daggerheart, but I have personally found that (1) the classes/domains don't mesh with that vision, and (2) it's too much work to create/hack new classes or domains that better suits that vision.

 

[Reynard]

This is honestly and frustratingly where I have been for months now. There have been a number of campaign ideas that I had for running something with Daggerheart, but I have personally found that (1) the classes/domains don't mesh with that vision, and (2) it's too much work to create/hack new classes or domains that better suits that vision.

You can do a lot with reskinning and curating options, but there is a limit.

 

[Aldarc]

You can do a lot with reskinning and curating options, but there is a limit.

Pretty much.

 

[Aldarc]

Hot Take: Avatar Legends is a legitimately good game that authentically emulates Avatar-verse stores. That said, I suspect that Avatar Legends would have been much closer to what people had been expecting/wanting out of an Avatar TTRPG had it been designed using Daggerheart's underlying system.

 

[zakael19]

OTOH, you're not wrong that a more open design would be versatile. But you are paying for said versatility. I could see a Sci-fi version or "Advanced Daggerheart" using a more open model, but tbh, I'm happy with how Daggerheart landed.

There's a pretty detailed SciFi hack in development I took a gander at, and they're doing new domains and some new mechanics to fit that concept. I think right now we're seeing a lot of pretty shallow Frames/adjustments, but DH's core design is a great baseline to spin significant hacks off the way you get the full suite of FITD games off Blades.

DH was made for high fantasy gaming, and can drift around (Motherboard and Red Dead Colossus are bespoke examples of about where you can get with guided skinning and some surrounding mechanics) but certainly isn't GURPS or something.

 

[Reynard]

There's a pretty detailed SciFi hack in development I took a gander at, and they're doing new domains and some new mechanics to fit that concept. I think right now we're seeing a lot of pretty shallow Frames/adjustments, but DH's core design is a great baseline to spin significant hacks off the way you get the full suite of FITD games off Blades.

DH was made for high fantasy gaming, and can drift around (Motherboard and Red Dead Colossus are bespoke examples of about where you can get with guided skinning and some surrounding mechanics) but certainly isn't GURPS or something.

I do agree that folks will reforge DH into many things (I am running a aetherpunk supers game now and making notes about what I would do to turn DH into a legit supers game). But it is going to require a lot of work. Classes and Domains and deply interconnected mechanics, and folks who think they can whip up a new Domain in a weekend that actually works are, generally, wrong.

 

[zakael19]

Concur. I wish that the Homebrew kit had more guidance on how they figured out what level to stick domain abilities at - L7 is clearly the "here's your bonus for load out" one; L5 tends to be a movement ability for magic classes; and obviously the high levels bring major things. But as I was working on tweaking domain cards to fit into Warhammer I kept realizing I wasn't sure how they determined the progression.

 

[Aldarc]

There's a pretty detailed SciFi hack in development I took a gander at, and they're doing new domains and some new mechanics to fit that concept.

Sure but this feels a bit like Starfinder 2 in so far as its mostly just Pathfinder 2 in Space! even to the point where it is expected that you can run PF2 classes alongside SF2 classes and spell traditions.

 

[zakael19]

Sure but this feels a bit like Starfinder 2 in so far as its mostly just Pathfinder 2 in Space! even to the point where it is expected that you can run PF2 classes alongside SF2 classes and spell traditions.

Hm? The one I saw was using entirely new classes and significantly altered or tweaked domains with no expectation you’d use the base ones.

I’ve been working on a 40k hack and by changing up the ability/domain names & some of the text you can get a very different vibe. But yeah needs at least renamed and rejiggered classes to feel right (and IMO you need to rename Spellcast to something else…). So like I said, a Hack (in PBTA/FITD terms) where it’s not base DH any more.