D&D General So… psionic powers are no longer purely mental?

[Remathilis]

It's that WotC's chosen design method for 5e is design-by-committee, just via survey. When there's a clear agreement about what something should be in broad strokes, e.g. everyone agrees Druids should have shapeshift (but might quibble about fine details), then this method works.* When there is deep disagreement, on the other hand, it is completely nonfunctional. That's why they tried like four shots at fixing/changing the Ranger (and Sorcerer...and Monk...and Warlock...), why they tried like three or four times to create a Psion, etc., etc.

I think you are deeply underselling the divide in the community. Ask 20 D&D players what a druid is and you''ll get 24 answers, ranging from two separate classes (nature priest and shape shifter) to not a class at all (some variant of cleric/generic priest). People don't broadly agree on even the most basic of D&D principles and it probably doesn't help that 50 years and five editions have each defined druid with enough differences that creating a unified definition is impossible. Add to it all the variants, house ruled versions and 3pp interpretations and the idea of a druid becomes a thought experiment: everyone agrees the concept fine, but nobody agrees on a single aspect of the execution.

I'm sure the design team has discovered that you actually can't get 70% consensus on any aspect of D&D anymore (I don't even think the d20 would get universal acceptance anymore) so they have switched from "how should we design a druid?" to "does this feel enough like a druid to you?" and if enough people say yes, that's good enough to sell a book.

 

[Corinnguard]

I think you are deeply underselling the divide in the community. Ask 20 D&D players what a druid is and you''ll get 24 answers, ranging from two separate classes (nature priest and shape shifter) to not a class at all (some variant of cleric/generic priest). People don't broadly agree on even the most basic of D&D principles and it probably doesn't help that 50 years and five editions have each defined druid with enough differences that creating a unified definition is impossible. Add to it all the variants, house ruled versions and 3pp interpretations and the idea of a druid becomes a thought experiment: everyone agrees the concept fine, but nobody agrees on a single aspect of the execution.

I'm sure the design team has discovered that you actually can't get 70% consensus on any aspect of D&D anymore (I don't even think the d20 would get universal acceptance anymore) so they have switched from "how should we design a druid?" to "does this feel enough like a druid to you?" and if enough people say yes, that's good enough to sell a book.

The concept behind every class in D&D and every other RPG out there is a subjective thing. I doubt that they can be made objectively because each of us has our own ideas on how a class should look and work.

 

[Remathilis]

Ah! Thanks! I skimmed most of the doc but missed that

Well, at least they get Silent and Eschew Materials Metamagics for free. Not sure why they need to also make a salute in order to think harder, but hey, we’ll take it I guess?

As for spells with costly components… they could have simply sidestepped the issue by not giving those spells to the Psion’s spell list in the first place

I personally played with the 3.5 XPH rule saying that Detect Psionics also detects magic and vice versa, so I don’t mind that they’re adjacent phenomenons… but if Psions don’t even shed the components, then it’s like they’re basically the same as Sorcerers.

I appreciate the fact that Somatic components give at least one check on their use. You can't use them while restrained/grappled (except for those who have no S and thus no components) and the costly stuff does include some rather important stuff a caster needs.

I look at it the same way the artificer is just a spellcaster who adds a M (tinker's tools) to it's spells: not exactly what I would think artifice should be, but works fine in abstract and it's better than not having the class or having some system that if complicated, possibly broken or never supported outside the original book again.

 

[Remathilis]

The concept behind every class in D&D and every other RPG out there is a subjective thing. I doubt that they can be made objectively because each of us has our own ideas on how a class should look and work.

Exactly. No matter what psionics system WotC would give us, there would be enough people who says it's not "psionicky enough" for them. It doesn't match their favorite interpretation of psionics, or even it shouldn't be a thing at all. The spellcaster psion is the path of least resistance: the mechanics are sounds, the flavor is there, and all the people who want something different will find it in the multiple different versions 3pp has or will design. Meanwhile, there is something for the people who don't care and just need something for their Dark Sun campaign.

Because D&D is too balkanized for anything else.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

As for spells with costly components… they could have simply sidestepped the issue by not giving those spells to the Psion’s spell list in the first place

It uses spell slots, which means it can acquire spells that are not on the class list, so even if there aren't any, it still needs to be covered.

 

[Reynard]

It would take 20+ external surveys to get it right.

Or none. They could just design the thing, internally test it, and then put it out. The "playtesting" is a marketing gimmick anyway.

 

[Minigiant]

Or none. They could just design the thing, internally test it, and then put it out. The "playtesting" is a marketing gimmick anyway.

Eeeehh..


You suggesting WOTC do this?


Eeeeeh.... i dunno...

 

[Reynard]

Eeeehh..


You suggesting WOTC do this?


Eeeeeh.... i dunno...

Trust your designers.

 

[Remathilis]

Trust your designers.

These are the same people who gave us Purple Dragon Knight...

Though honestly, I kinda agree. WotC has been too deferential since 5e to a community who doesn't know what they want. I kinda think brute forcing "this is what psionics is in 5e" is as valid a tactic as a dozen surveys. It's not like UA feedback saved us from Twilight cleric...

 

[Reynard]

These are the same people who gave us Purple Dragon Knight...

If you don't trust them or like their designs, why would you buy anything from WotC at all?