D&D 5E (2014) Do You Start At Level 1?

[Reynard]

And what about "people would do better to play the way they like, emphasizing what they want?

You asked a question, at what level do you like to start, I gave my answer. I wasn't expecting to be told how my way to pretend to be an elf is not the good way.

You told another poster you can only do certain kinds of adventures at certain levels. I countered.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think it is a mistake to think that the "help your uncle gather ingredients" is somehow locked to low level. What if your uncle is an archmage and the ingredients are in the feywild? And a 1st level character can get conscripted and have to march across the country in order to fight under their lord's banner. It happens all the time in fantasy literature.

The scale and kind of stories we want to tell with D&D can be based on their level, bit it isn't inherent. People would do better, IMO, to think beyond the tropes and cliches and embrace things like scope regardless of level.

You've described two wildly different adventures with wildly different results and assumed that PC's deserve to call on the quest giver through blood ties that really complicate the discussion needlessly in too many ways.

In the first the players might be establishing ties to a local herbalist alchemist or minor hedge wizard who is going to have regular needs and is likely to notice the potential of a future favor with interest in the form of being extra generous with an up and coming group of adventurers before simply calling on them would become an out of teach thing given the quest giver's current & expected skills. Maybe one day that quest giver could even introduce that party of well established & proven adventures to an archmage in need of well established adventures in his circle of contacts.

In the second the party already knows a freaking archmage. So far above the needs of low level adventurers that there's no need to care about a future favor with interest and the archmage passing the party up to someone more powerful in need goes to individuals like Eliminster full on Dragons and minor deities or something.

You've skipped the entire journey with a level jump and nepobaby background trying to justify that bump as totally the same thing when done at a higher level.

 

[Reynard]

You've described two wildly different adventures with wildly different results and assumed that PC's deserve to call on the quest giver through blood ties that really complicate the discussion needlessly in too many ways.

In the first the players might be establishing ties to a local herbalist alchemist or minor hedge wizard who is going to have regular needs and is likely to notice the potential of a future favor with interest in the form of being extra generous with an up and coming group of adventurers before simply calling on them would become an out of teach thing given the quest giver's current & expected skills. Maybe one day that quest giver could even introduce that party of well established & proven adventures to an archmage in need of well established adventures in his circle of contacts.

In the second the party already knows a freaking archmage. So far above the needs of low level adventurers that there's no need to care about a future favor with interest and the archmage passing the party up to someone more powerful in need goes to individuals like Eliminster full on Dragons and minor deities or something.

You've skipped the entire journey with a level jump and nepobaby background trying to justify that bump as totally the same thing when done at a higher level.

I am not sure why you are so adamant about what kind of adventures must happen at what levels,as if it were some some sort of rule. It isn't. It is just a narrow view in a genre that is supposed to provide infinite possibilities.

You absolutely should play the way you want, but don't tell other people they must be This Tall To Ride This Adventure. I can and have run planar adventures at level 1, and small town personal stakes investigations at level 10.

 

[BenjaminPey]

Did I, though? Can you quote me on that? And maybe re-read what I said in another state of mind? One that doesn't seek to counter, but to understand, even when you disagree?

 

[TwoSix]

Ahhh, Cantrip McUpcast. I've heard of you.

It’s been a long time since someone has spoken that name….

 

[Reynard]

Did I, though? Can you quote me on that? And maybe re-read what I said in another state of mind? One that doesn't seek to counter, but to understand, even when you disagree?

Hey, you are the one that said

You simply don't get it, do you?

Which is a pretty aggressive way to present your perspective.

 

[RealAlHazred]

I really liked the levels before level 1 that they started to roll out with Unearthed Arcana, with the cavalier class and the Magic-User/Illusionist (the latter hidden in the cantrips section). They never really rolled out the idea to other classes, but it basically was an attempt to "reset" the classes to a lower power level. I never got a chance to play with them; I was always thinking of running, like, a school situation where the various PCs met each other while absolute scrubs and encountered (without realizing it) the campaign big bad.

Come to think of it, did I have the idea for Harry Potter years before JKR? Huh... missed opportunity.

 

[kigmatzomat]

You simply don't get it, do you?
The challenges. Your character's perspective on life. The troubles they're facing. Is having to gather ingredients for your uncle the herbalist the same thing as traveling across the country to fight in the name of your lord?

Depends. You send a 6th level fighter to gather marsh herbs with zero relevant skills and they may pray for an enemy cavalry charge.

"Ooh, its good thing you made your CON save, that poison sumac is only going to give you disadvantage for the next 24 hours."
"But. (scratch-scratch)...there were no 'leaves of three'!"
"Yeah, sumac is just mean like that."

Ultimately, a fetch quest is a fetch quest. It comes down to the purpose of this in the overall game. What is the point of the herb gathering? Is it to establish characters' connection with a locale? Their position in the social hierarchy? An opportunity to fight RoUS? The proper seasoning for supper? To witness Little Timmy being lead Underhill by the Blue Fairy?

Only one of those purposes is dependent of level.

Oh, I left off one: to allow PCs to demonstrate growth by outperforming expectations. That is level dependent but could easily be foreshadowed with simple commentary.
"Oh, don't ask Cormak to gather herbs, you know he never paid attention to Uncle Herbert's lessons. Why not have him chop wood?"
"I'll be back with the herbs before lunch time, Aunt Marsha."

 

[AlViking]

Let's say I was running a modern day version of the game. I would want to start out as more-or-less a normal person. I don't want to be a Navy Seal special operative or a Jason Borne level special operative. I just want to be someone who is reasonably competent but knows there are plenty of people better than them, that doesn't really know what they're doing yet and has big dreams.

Starting at level 3 or higher - you're already that Army Ranger or typical action hero level of competency. Yeah, you have the enhanced super soldier or b-tier superhero levels to look forward to but you were never really the normal person just trying to survive. A first level character has likely never seen death, never experienced a life-and-death situation, never experienced a fight where it was kill or be killed. Or perhaps they have been in a life-and-death situation and felt completely helpless which is why they decided to start training with weapons or committing to studying spells but they've never really been tested. Defeating real enemies, fighting back has all been largely theoretical even if they've been to the equivalent of boot camp.

So if people say that others "just don't get it", it's not because they have a different preference. I get why some people don't want to start at first level and it's fine. But when you start hitting 3rd level and above, the feel of the game changes ... who your character is will be fundamentally different. Even if they are doing similar activities the perspective from the viewpoint of the character is different because by that level they've seen combat, they've had that first experience of "If I make a mistake or get unlucky I die".

For a lot of people this kind of thing doesn't matter. It doesn't always matter to me. I would hope people could accept that for some of us it feels different and is part of what makes the character who they are.

edit - removed weird typo, hadn't noticed the cat adding their notes.

 

[Reynard]

\
\9qwer89867WRYU8OLet's say I was running a modern day version of the game. I would want to start out +as more-or-less a normal person. I don't want to be a Navy Seal special operative or a Jason Borne level special operative. I just want to be someone who is reasonably competent but knows there are plenty of people better than them, that doesn't really know what they're doing yet and has big dreams.

Starting at level 3 or higher - you're already that Army Ranger or typical action hero level of competency. Yeah, you have the enhanced super soldier or b-tier superhero levels to look forward to but you were never really the normal person just trying to survive. A first level character has likely never seen death, never experienced a life-and-death situation, never experienced a fight where it was kill or be killed. Or perhaps they have been in a life-and-death situation and felt completely helpless which is why they decided to start training with weapons or committing to studying spells but they've never really been tested. Defeating real enemies, fighting back has all been largely theoretical even if they've been to the equivalent of boot camp.

So if people say that others "just don't get it", it's not because they have a different preference. I get why some people don't want to start at first level and it's fine. But when you start hitting 3rd level and above, the feel of the game changes ... who your character is will be fundamentally different. Even if they are doing similar activities the perspective from the viewpoint of the character is different because by that level they've seen combat, they've had that first experience of "If I make a mistake or get unlucky I die".

For a lot of people this kind of thing doesn't matter. It doesn't always matter to me. I would hope people could accept that for some of us it feels different and is part of what makes the character who they are.

I get what you are saying. In 5E in particular, though, it falls flat for me because of how brief that "normal person| period is. 5E PCs literally go from first to 2nd level overnight. That is, after one bad day. Two days later and they are "Navy Seals" as you say, having hit 3rd level. I am not sure how much you can glean from their "normal life" when it lasts such a short time.

In earlier editions where first level lasted significantly longer, I would tend to be more agreeable to you overall point.