Why I Hate Skills

[MichaelSomething]

I totally agree with putting locks on things because that's what NPCs would do. And opening those locks is what PCs do! (Well, some And that's how I feel about locks, too. If the goal is to make the exploration challenging, then make it challenging for the players: don't hinge it on whether or not they happen to succeed on a die roll.

Which is why WOTC should sell paickable locks for DMs to have players actually pick during play. Instead of rolling a dice, a GM can pull out a lock and some picks have the players do IRL lockpicking!

 

[Bill Zebub]

Which is why WOTC should sell paickable locks for DMs to have players actually pick during play. Instead of rolling a dice, a GM can pull out a lock and some picks have the players do IRL lockpicking!

I mean, WTOC doesn't need to sell them. My 12 year old has a practice lock that has easy-to-swap pins.

But that's not what I meant about "make it challenging to the players". I meant: don't rely on pickable locks to challenge them.

 

[pemerton]

Not normally, because that doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm just saying that Wisdom (and the other stats) are indirectly used as widgets on the character sheet because they modify skill and attacks that do get invoked directly.

Contrast that with a pure identifier like "hair color" or "age".

In Wuthering Heights, you roll on your age ("oldness", as the translation from the French has it):

To test his wisdom, one should roll below his Oldness
To test his physical well-being, one should Surpass his Oldness​

(This post brought to you by for completeness.)

 

[GMMichael]

But...I don't think it's really very meaningful. If the "more challenging way" is actually more challenging, in a meaningful way, then all the mechanic does is leave determine easy vs. hard using a random die roll that requires no skilled play. The thief says, "I try to pick it" and either they succeed or fail.

Sure. It seems "skilled" is in the eye of the beholder, here. Not sure which skill you're looking for, but there's skill in designing a character, skill in knowing what one has put on the character sheet and how to use it, and skill in role-playing the character in a way that maximizes everyone's enjoyment. Even if a single roll requires no skill.

If you're disappointed that games (Dragonbane?) call for character skill instead of player skill, you might find better results from games in which you don't play a character, or a non-RPG.

 

[Fenris-77]

Sure. It seems "skilled" is in the eye of the beholder, here. Not sure which skill you're looking for, but there's skill in designing a character, skill in knowing what one has put on the character sheet and how to use it, and skill in role-playing the character in a way that maximizes everyone's enjoyment. Even if a single roll requires no skill.

If you're disappointed that games (Dragonbane?) call for character skill instead of player skill, you might find better results from games in which you don't play a character, or a non-RPG.

Or a game that doesn't have a character skill mechanic. There are lots of those.

 

[Fenris-77]

I don't mean the sort that, say Shadowdark has, where a background stands in somewhat abstractly for a possible skill list. In that case the player needs to think hard about his character in order to justify the application, which is all to the good. This links specific actions with specific things in the character history and helps build out the character during play. The answer isn't 'on the character sheet' though.

I'm not hating on skills here really so much as appreciating the benefits of lighter mechanical approaches.

 

[soviet]

In Wuthering Heights, you roll on your age ("oldness", as the translation from the French has it):

To test his wisdom, one should roll below his Oldness​

To test his physical well-being, one should Surpass his Oldness​

(This post brought to you by for completeness.)

That's wonderfully elegant.

 

[Andvari]

I think when OSR-style games or gamers refer to "player skill" they mean the player's abilities to think of solutions to obstacles in the game world, rather than physical skills, like real-life ability to pick a lock. That's why attacks are resolved by dice rolling but tactical decisions are made by the player, for example. So you're looking for ways to challenge players' creativity, curiosity and intelligence.

I don't think that means you have to throw out all die-rolling. Maybe it's OK to pick a lock now and then by rolling a die, similar to how it's OK to let them make an attack by rolling a die?