D&D 5E (2014) So 5E is the Successor to AD&D 2nd Edition? How and How Not?

[Sacrosanct]

3e was a direct successor to 2e, but mechanically it was a new thing, and "spiritually" it was probably more a successor to 1e. 5e seems like mechanically it's a successor to 3e, with some of the ideas of 4e rebranded, but I guess I can see that maybe it's a spiritual successor to 2e, at least maybe when it launched. But that's a harder thing to demonstrate, and it much more about "feel" and subjectiveness. And I think from a marketing standpoint, they've certainly migrated more into a later 3e style release schedule, where they're hoping to sell more player-facing books, so the game itself has become more player-facing and player-focused rather than DM-facing and DM-focused.

The OGL debacle certainly feels like TSR's draconian C&D online approach during late 2e, and WotC's 4e approach, which felt much less open and customer friendly, but that's not an aspect of either of those editions that they should want to emulate.

I think 3e is directly linked to 2e as both spiritual and literal successor. We can see what they wanted to do with the 2e Player's Options books. With the exception of ascending AC (which they wanted in 2e anyway but decided being backwards compatible was more important), you can see 3e in those PO books. PO was the groundwork for more tactical combat, feats, and PC customization we saw really take off in 3e.

 

[Retreater]

An example from the Paladin entry (this isn't final, and hasn't been edited yet, so ignore any spelling issues or things like that for now).

Looking great! I like the addition of the Kits.
Is there a chance we could get a bi-stat with positive AC in addition to the THAC0? (It's a big stumbling block for my players, even if I can convert it for them.)

 

[Remathilis]

Not a straight clone. Mostly 2e with some 1e elements pulled in, like the assassin and monk classes. And level titles. And each class having their own XP table rather than groups. That last images is a kit page, so there will be some items from the Complete book series, but not nearly as extensive. Trying to keep page count down, so just a couple kits to give the idea.

Without seeing more, this feels more like "cleaned up 1e with a sprinkle of 2e" than "2e clone with extra elements". I guess it would depend on what the illusionist, bard, druid, and ranger looked like to make that final call.

That said, if I can make a suggestion or two, use the Monk and Assassin from the 2e Scarlet Brotherhood supplement (which are 2e conversions of the 1e classes and only need minor tweaks compared to the 1e verison) and use the Spheres of Magic for priests from Player's Option: Spells & Magic. The PHB dumps spells willy-nilly into spheres without thought as to who should be able to cast it (creating the forehead-slapping moment where clerics can cast Reincarnate, but druids can't) and PO: S&M attempts to fix that te reorganizing the spells and sphere access to give clerics and druids (and other casters they added) corrected and unique spell access.

 

[TwoSix]

Without seeing more, this feels more like "cleaned up 1e with a sprinkle of 2e" than "2e clone with extra elements". I guess it would depend on what the illusionist, bard, druid, and ranger looked like to make that final call.

I mean, having kits alone puts it in the solidly in the "feels more like 2e" camp for my tastes. Assuming that concepts like specialist wizards (as opposed to an illusionist class), bards as a starting class, higher level limits, priest spheres, and a cleaned-up initiative system are included, then I think we're pretty in-line with expectations for a "2e clone plus".

 

[Plaguescarred]

AD&D 2nd Edition is one of the longest i played with, i can see similarities with 5E for sure, but THAC0 vs d20, Saving Throws and Ability Checks vs DC makes the engine run differently at the same time. Feat also so distinctive. But Vancian magic, Druid metal taboo, the Races/subraces traits many things remind me of it.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Without seeing more, this feels more like "cleaned up 1e with a sprinkle of 2e" than "2e clone with extra elements". I guess it would depend on what the illusionist, bard, druid, and ranger looked like to make that final call.

It has spheres of influence and spell school specialization like 2e. But it's a definite hybrid between the two.

That said, if I can make a suggestion or two, use the Monk and Assassin from the 2e Scarlet Brotherhood supplement (which are 2e conversions of the 1e classes and only need minor tweaks compared to the 1e verison) and use the Spheres of Magic for priests from Player's Option: Spells & Magic. The PHB dumps spells willy-nilly into spheres without thought as to who should be able to cast it (creating the forehead-slapping moment where clerics can cast Reincarnate, but druids can't) and PO: S&M attempts to fix that te reorganizing the spells and sphere access to give clerics and druids (and other casters they added) corrected and unique spell access.

I actually used the monk from Dragon (54 I think??) as the template instead of the core 1e (which was woefully underpowered). TBH, I never liked the unarmed combat system in 2e. Make an attack roll, but depending on what you rolled, lower could be better, and take a penalty if your opponent has a weapon or natural attack, etc. (I fully acknowledge the damage for unarmed combat needs serious nerfing though at higher levels)

 

[soviet]

I don't think 5e is anything like 2e, and I played 2e for its entire lifespan.

EDIT: And 5e for its entire lifespan, regrettably.

 

[mamba]

And each class having their own XP table rather than groups.

dang, that is the wrong direction…

 

[Sacrosanct]

dang, that is the wrong direction…

It's a clone of 1e/2e. That's how it was. If I wanted to create another fantasy heartbreaker, I suppose I could but would rather not.

 

[mamba]

It's a clone of 1e/2e. That's how it was. If I wanted to create another fantasy heartbreaker, I suppose I could but would rather not.

it’s your game, you do with it what you feel is right. I agree that 1e and 2e basically had individual XP progressions, but I’d rather move past 2e towards newer ideas instead of back towards 1e, and a unified progression is high on my list.