Play Is Paramount: Discuss

[Maxperson]

Where I think the metaphor works most strongly is that the point of cooking is for the food you've prepared to land on the table, so people can engage with it; similarly, the point of GM prep is for the TRPG material/s you've prepped to land on the table, so people can engage with it.

I strongly disagree with that, because that implies that I'm forcing them to eat the food that I've prepared. I'm not. I don't cook the food and then railroad them into eating what I've made by putting it on the table in front of them.

The food that is created and eaten is a collaboration between the DM and the players who are the ingredients of the meal. The DM via prep of potential things and roleplay of the game world, and the players via roleplaying their PCs interacting with the game world. Together they take those ingredients and cook and eat that meal. Hopefully it tastes good, but sometimes it doesn't.

Of course, as I see TRPG play, there's a lot more in the sense of creativity happening at the table, plausibly some sort of table-cooking (a la Korean BBQ or hot pot, or maybe something more like a buffet) but no metaphor is perfect.

Yeah. When I prep, I'm just prepping possibilities that may or may not happen. I don't cook anything for the players to eat. Any meal is cooked by everyone at the table.

 

[Piperken]

This seems to pre-suppose that play is necessary.

For me, it is. But it's not some universal truth -- if someone gets all the enjoyment they want or need out of non-play elements, then clearly play is not the most important element for them..

Coming back to this; I think where each of us happens to be in constellation with the hobby carries some weight in the responses to OP's statement.

I run games now. I read blog posts that discuss a little game design, play loops, procedures, or content that I can use in games at my own table. What engages me, or what I find enjoyable to muck around in, whether that's particular themes, genres, aesthetics, characters, offering new rules to try out at a the table, etc. is different, even though there are particulars that I return too with constancy.

Yet, if you presented OP's statement to younger me, I'd agree with it 100%. Absolutely.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Nah.

Strong argument. I really see the point you're trying to make here.

I agree with @Maxperson . Interacting with RPGs is like cooking, and play at the table is like actually consuming the meal with others. I don't see eating the meal as the most important part of the entire process necessarily, or even absolutely needed to make the other parts worthwhile.

 

[prabe]

Strong argument. I really see the point you're trying to make here.

I agree with @Maxperson . Interacting with RPGs is like cooking, and play at the table is like actually consuming the meal with others. I don't see eating the meal as the most important part of the entire process necessarily, or even absolutely needed to make the other parts worthwhile.

I find it ... fascinating that you don't think the point of the meal is to eat it.

 

[Fenris-77]

Strong argument. I really see the point you're trying to make here.

I agree with @Maxperson . Interacting with RPGs is like cooking, and play at the table is like actually consuming the meal with others. I don't see eating the meal as the most important part of the entire process necessarily, or even absolutely needed to make the other parts worthwhile.

But that meal, and possibility of you making it, are the entire reason the book exists, regardless of how you decide to enjoy the book. It doesn't make any sense to say that actual cooking isn't the core purpose of a cookbook. Not the only purpose, but the main purpose.

 

[prabe]

But that meal, and possibility of you making it, are the entire reason the book exists, regardless of how you decide to enjoy the book. It doesn't make any sense to say that actual cooking isn't the core purpose of a cookbook. Not the only purpose, but the main purpose.

I am a hobby-cook, at best--occasionally a motivated one; IIRC, it's been a part of your professional life. I'm completely OK with--and agree with--the idea there is satisfaction and creativity in the actual cooking, but even at that, the primary purpose of the meal (as you I think correctly put it) is to eat it.

I'm completely OK with--and agree with--the idea there is satisfaction and creativity in prepping for play (which will mean very different things for different people, and for different games); the idea that the prepping is the primary purpose of the game seems ... kinda bizarre, really. To use a metaphor I deployed well upthread, it's like saying the primary purpose of beer is to kill slugs in the garden. (There is beer I'd purchase specifically for that purpose; that does not make it the primary purpose of the beer.)

 

[Fenris-77]

I am a hobby-cook, at best--occasionally a motivated one; IIRC, it's been a part of your professional life. I'm completely OK with--and agree with--the idea there is satisfaction and creativity in the actual cooking, but even at that, the primary purpose of the meal (as you I think correctly put it) is to eat it.

I'm completely OK with--and agree with--the idea there is satisfaction and creativity in prepping for play (which will mean very different things for different people, and for different games); the idea that the prepping is the primary purpose of the game seems ... kinda bizarre, really. To use a metaphor I deployed well upthread, it's like saying the primary purpose of beer is to kill slugs in the garden. (There is beer I'd purchase specifically for that purpose; that does not make it the primary purpose of the beer.)

This metaphor is getting messy. The actual referent - RPGs - has two parts: reading/prep and play. Cooking seems to have been split into more parts and the relationship between cooking and eating versus RPG play is all over the place. It's all getting a bit ecumenical.

The point is that you have the preparation of a thing and the thing itself. In both cases the thing itself is why the books exist at all. That doesn't mean people can't just read them of course, but that doesn't change their core function.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Great counter argument!

I mean, see my previous comments. I’ve already addressed this with a number of comparisons of my own. Notably, mine used more relevant points of comparison in the form of games.

Rather than this clumsy cooking analogy that doesn’t really hold up at all because you’ve failed to make the obvious point of comparison.

Namely…

In the metaphor you seem to be using, group play is more like the meal being consumed at the table.

Exactly. Eating is what’s paramount to cooking. That’s why people do it. Itis the”play” of the metaphor. Could there be other reasons to cook? Sure… but those are edge cases and don’t change the actual point.

When I prep, I'm just prepping possibilities that may or may not happen.

This is why cooking probably isn’t the best metaphor. Because when we set out to cook, we’re almost always making something specific. You don’t start with beef and tortillas and rice and then somehow wind up with gnocchi.

Strong argument. I really see the point you're trying to make here.

I mean, you haven’t seen the point for pages now.

But maybe what would help is if you addressed some of the comparisons I made. They include activities that involve play, so they’re better than this cooking nonsense.

When I set up the soccer field for my kid’s league, was I playing soccer?

When I was a kid and used my grandfather’s chess set as action figures to act out little made up scenarios, was I playing chess?

 

[prabe]

This metaphor is getting messy. The actual referent - RPGs - has two parts: reading/prep and play. Cooking seems to have been split into more parts and the relationship between cooking and eating versus RPG play is all over the place. It's all getting a bit ecumenical.

The point is that you have the preparation of a thing and the thing itself. In both cases the thing itself is why the books exist at all. That doesn't mean people can't just read them of course, but that doesn't change their core function.

Yeah, my point was that there's nothing wrong with enjoying cooking, or enjoying prepping; that enjoyment isn't the primary purpose of either (though it might be a motivation).

 

[Fenris-77]

Yeah, my point was that there's nothing wrong with enjoying cooking, or enjoying prepping; that enjoyment isn't the primary purpose of either (though it might be a motivation).

I wasn't suggesting that you, personally, were muddying the waters, only that they had become muddied.