Babes of Gencon SoCal 2003

Leopold is not a real mod, no offense to him, but he's just in charge of what, the daemonforge forum? He's not an enforcer of the Grandma Rules.

So when do I get to start the "Fat losers of GenCon SoCal" thread? Or the "Ugly People of GenCon SoCal" thread? Or even "Hot Studs of GenCon SoCal"?

I appreciate that you've all been very polite in your reactions to these pictures. No sexist commentary, no leering. Comments on costumes mostly. Thank you, gentlemen.

But that doesn't make this any less a sexist thread. And do you know why? Because of the use of the word "Babe" Babe is a judgement. And it's sexist. You've posted pictures here only because of the attractiveness of the women. In my opinion, that's sexist.

I won't ask for the thread to be shut down, Arthur, because I suspect you'd enjoy the controversy more than the chance to show your pictures. But this thread is unworthy of the fellowship of gamers. Yeah, everybody likes to look at attractive members of the species. But I have to ask, is this really the place?

KidCthulhu said:

I won't ask for the thread to be shut down, Arthur, because I suspect you'd enjoy the controversy more than the chance to show your pictures. But this thread is unworthy of the fellowship of gamers. Yeah, everybody likes to look at attractive members of the species. But I have to ask, is this really the place?

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looked at ArthurQ's Gen Con Indy pics. i submitted one.

mine was a Baggage of Gen Con pic tho.

Ah, but pics of GenCon Indy is a very different animal, in my opinion. That's shots of the con, things you saw, stuff that happened. That's a different intent from a thread intended to display attractive women. Just my opinion, of course. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the GenCon photos threads, and enjoyed looking at people's pictures.

KidCthulhu said:

You've posted pictures here only because of the attractiveness of the women. In my opinion, that's sexist.

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Technically, KidCthulhu, that makes it sexual. It is only sexist if there's a discriminatory value judgement involved. Other than a couple of childish "sandwich" comments (which didn't come from those who posted the pics) I don't see any sign of such.

IIRC, ArthurQ has repeatedly made it clear that picutres other than his own are welcome. Folks are free to post pictures of guys, attractive or otherwise. Nobody seems to want to do so.

You're within rights to ask if the mild sexual content is valid here. But I don't think you've got grounds to call the folks who posted the pics "sexist", unless having a particular artistic sense is sexist....

Fair enough, Umbran. Perhaps I should have been more clear. I find them sexist. That doesn't mean that anyone else might. Perhaps it might be better to say demeaning, not sexist. I find the use of the term "babe" and "girls" and asking women to pose in attractive, flirtaceous poses is demeaning to the women in question. That's my opinion.

You're right, I don't have a whole lot of grounds for asking for the thread to be closed. Nor would I, even if I had a ton of evidence. But neither can I go without speaking my feelings. Now I have, and we can all go back to looking a the nice ladies.

[jerry lewis voice]Oh, nice lady, with the ears all pointy, and the sharp glaven! [/jerry lewis voice]

Heretic Apostate said:

Yeah, I know... It's just that, as a mod himself, Leopold should know better. Plus, not even 12 hours before, he had been warned by PC about the exact same sort of thing... AND had promised to not do it again...

Ah, well... Such is life...

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Leo is a hosted forum leader or some such. He has purview over Daemonforge and that's it. Similarly I have purview over Dusk. Any mod authority he has stops there.

Now, if I want to betray the trust given me, I can use admin features sitewide - it's locked in with the ability to edit the styles. I wish I could seperate them, but I can't. Still, having the ability to do something and the authority are two seperate things. The only condition under which I can close/delete a thread is the posting of porn or other somesuch nonsense guaranteed to get the perpertrator a permanent ban once P-kitty learns the details of what happened.

KidCthulhu said:

Fair enough, Umbran. Perhaps I should have been more clear. I find them sexist. That doesn't mean that anyone else might. Perhaps it might be better to say demeaning, not sexist. I find the use of the term "babe" and "girls" and asking women to pose in attractive, flirtaceous poses is demeaning to the women in question. That's my opinion.

You're right, I don't have a whole lot of grounds for asking for the thread to be closed. Nor would I, even if I had a ton of evidence. But neither can I go without speaking my feelings. Now I have, and we can all go back to looking a the nice ladies.

[jerry lewis voice]Oh, nice lady, with the ears all pointy, and the sharp glaven! [/jerry lewis voice]

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KidCthulu:
I was not the original person to begin Babes of Gencon.

Sean K Reynolds started it with a feature on his site dating back about 2 or 3 years. He couldnt attend Gencon Indy and I could.
Being a fan of his site I decided to take up the mantle and post Babes of Gencon here at Enworld. He was too buzy to take photos for SoCal So me and Chris from Twin Rose Software did it this time around.

If you feel that this feature/event/gallery is sexist thats fine. But there is nothing morally wrong with appreciating an attractive female, much less an attractive female in a costume, OR one that attends gaming conventions.

All of the girls are aware that the photos go in an online gallery and all of them are pointed at Enworld if they want to see it. (not that it matters to you, i'm sure it doesnt).

As for it being demeaning....

www.m-w.com said:

Main Entry: 2demean
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): de·meaned; de·mean·ing
Etymology: de- + 1mean
Date: 1601
: to lower in character, status, or reputation

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If the girls, ladies, women, in the pictures featured felt that being in the gallery would lower their status or reputation, or character, among their peers in anyway, they wouldnt have done it.

If you personally lost respect for them for willingly pose then maybe you dont have respect for anyone that dresses in a costume. The purpose of posing is usually to increase attention. The same goes for wearing a costume. They wear costumes to get attention at the convention.

Is it wrong for attractive women to ask for attention at a convetion? Or anywhere else for that matter? Thats a philisiohpical and moral issue, and it has no place at Enworld, as our mods like to enforce.

Its just a photo gallery of women at gencon. Thats it.
If you dont like it, then you dont have to view it.

To bring this discussion any further would really open a can of worms involving feminism, pornography, and a host of subjects that would get your thread closed faster than you can say Nemry. I don't wish your thread closed, and I don't believe that you will comprehend or be convinced by any arguments I may bring to bear on the subject.

I'll end my comments with this: What is not demeaning to one individual can still demean the whole.