Why the hate for anime? (Y da hat 4 anime?)

Joshua Dyal said:

It's absolutely not a medium, and absolutely is a style, and that's why folks don't like it

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It is neither. It is not a medium because there is anime TV shows, movies, and even OAVs(a small series of videos or DVDs)..as well as manga(comic book) forms. Nor is it a style since there is a wide variety of styles within the heading of "anime". "Anime" is a general term for animation that comes from japan.

Also, it is not cartoon. Calling anime cartoons is like trying to say Heavy Metal is a cartoon. Cartoons signify a children's series.

Animation is the medium, anime is a general term for a certain grouping of animation, and then there are many styles.

Some anime is good, just like some American TV and movies are good.

Escaflowne (just talking about the movie, mind you) is bad; just like Solar Babies is bad (go rent and see).

Now, of the two, which is worse? I leave that as an exercise to the reader. Now, just because Solarbabies incurs stark, raving madness and a desire for self-mutilation onto all who watch it, does that mean all American sci-fi is bad? Hardly not.

Just give anime the same fair shake.

Unless you dislike a constant barrage of hand-drawn, half-naked teenage girls. Yeah, that pretty well takes anime off your menu.

Now come to think of it, maybe we should ban the stuff...

Joshua Dyal said:

Great start to an open and throught-provoking debate, by insulting folks who don't like anime by saying they don't like Japanese culture, they have hard-ons for Hanna Barbera and are bitter about Pokemon outselling Magic. :rolleyes, please come back:

Yeah, I'm sure you'll get a great discussion outta that.

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I'm sorry. I was being silly. I'm not insulting people who dislike anime; I'm poking fun at the people who say they 'hate' it. I can understand people who are frustrated that D&D art is turning more anime-ish; something they like is changing. What I don't get is people getting violently angry that artists have different styles. Honestly, I think it's very important to make fun of people getting so up in arms about such a trivial thing. Y'know, like what South Park does.

Oh, crap. I'm gonna get this thread closed, aren't I?

Well, in an attempt to not be personally insulting, I'll say that I know that you cannot convince someone who hates an art style that they're wrong. But I don't like it when my fellow gamers look down on a particular type of game or book because it's not something they like. I don't like people pretending that one form of having fun is better or worse than another.

I admit, I am a little frustrated that people don't like anime-esque art. I think it pushes toward looking more cool than what was traditionally associated with old-school D&D, and the anime-esque art that does show up in D&D is not the over-the-top mouths as big as your head, sweatdrop stuff. It's stuff like this:

Let me list all the anime I have seen so I have that on the table:

Akira, Fist of the North Star, Vampire Hunter D, Neighborhood Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, LA Blue Girl (first 10 minutes only -- turned it off), Princess Mononoke, Project A-Ko

That's the lot, unless I missed something minor. Never saw Pokemon or any of the others.

What do I dislike? (Note: not hate) I generally dislike the Big Eyes, Small Mouth look. I dislike oversized weapons. I got lost in the plots of Akira, Fist of the North Star, and Project A-Ko. I prefer linear plots, realistic motion (of these, fantastically displayed in Princess Mononoke), and a more realistic palatte (again, done well in Princess Mononoke). I loath (yes, I do say that) representations of little girls being raped by tentacled creatures; I also realize that is only a minor subset of anime, the hentai. Such "art" as hentai I find morally repugnant. Most other forms, however, I merely find outside my usual tastes, both as a form of art and as a style of story. I don't think this is entirely a Western versus Japanese matter, as I have read several of Kawabata's novels and Genji Monogatari and enjoyed them.

What about other animation? Well, I like Rocky & Bullwinkle, but obviously for the actual animation. I like the Pixar material -- the plots are great, the characters move in a very believable manner, and you have to love the voices. I never was a fan of Hanna-Barbera, other than briefly as a child. So I can say that animation in general is not quite my cuppa.

My taste in art falls firmly into the realistic school. I love the Flemish Renaissance artists -- Bruegel, the van Eycks, Bosch, Vermeer; going north, I love Durer and Holbein. I love Magritte who, though he creates odd settings, is highly painterly. I also have a deep love for M.C. Escher.

So there we go. You may decide that I have limited tastes, and I can respect that, but there is no need for me to like all styles of art.

Caspian Moon Prince said:

Oh and Psion some anime that I'd recommend is: Vampire Hunter D(and Bloodlust the sequel), Grave of the Fireflies, Macross Plus, Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, and Harlock Saga

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You'll recommend Vampire Hunter D and Princess Mononoke based on my liking Vampire Hunter D and Princess Mononoke? That's mighty insightful of you.

Halivar said:

Now come to think of it, maybe we should ban the stuff...

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Oh goodness don't talk like that....that could lead to a group against anime called BAA(Bothered about Anime). It is bad enough that the majority is cut to ribbons in the editing to make it "fit" to be one TV. Yep even childish Pokemon wasn't kiddy enough for american TV.

Which to talk on that a moment... Why does it have to be edited? I mean, look at Japan. Kids there watch the shows and aren't as violent and rude as kids here. Then shows are edited and cut so it can be showed to an age demographic younger than shown in Japan..grrr

Psion said:

You'll recommend Vampire Hunter D and Princess Mononoke based on my liking Vampire Hunter D and Princess Mononoke? That's mighty insightful of you.

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Not his fault you happen to have good tastes.

Heh. I don't even watch American television anymore; if I'm watching something, it's almost certainly subtitled anime that I have downloaded. Hell, I'm waiting on a couple episodes of Full Metal Alchemist right now.

Part of the "hate" is a real age gap I can see -- I can't think of anyone I know who's 30 or older that actually likes anime; everyone I know that likes it distinctly falls below that line, even if only by a few years. Much as many from the younger generation loathe hair metal and other music from the 80's, many from the older generation look at what the younger generation is into and wonder what the hell the kids are thinking.

Dragon Ball Z seems to be considered to be a the representative of anime (Cartoon Network advertising it as the greatest show on Earth didn't help). DBZ is a terrible show, and a terrible representative of anime, especially of the newer stuff. Cowboy Bebop and Trigun make much better representatives than the bulk of what Cartoon Network has run.

Saikano and The 12 Kingdoms are even better representatives, but there's no way in hell Cartoon Network would ever run those.

Much of the things I've seen people complain about in this thread tend to belong to the older, low-budget shows.

Psion said:

You'll recommend Vampire Hunter D and Princess Mononoke based on my liking Vampire Hunter D and Princess Mononoke? That's mighty insightful of you.

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esh...well at least I know you'd like my recommendation if you hadn't

Then, I'll add Tenchi Muyo(the original OAV, not the series or Tenchi in Tokyo) and Dominion Tank Police.

Various said:

...I don't think I'd go so far as to say that I hate it, but it certainly holds no interest for me at all. I couldn't pin down why, but I'd say that the animation style generally puts me off. Plus those lines they draw to show someone moving fast or jumping, when they could just show the background moving by fast...

...When I was in junior high Robotech was being broadcast for the first time in the US and all the guys in school thought it was soooo cool. I watched it twice and then was sick of it...

...Akira, Fist of the North Star, Vampire Hunter D, Neighborhood Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, LA Blue Girl (first 10 minutes only -- turned it off), Princess Mononoke, Project A-Ko...

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What I'm seeing here is a lot of people seeing a very restricted quantity of anime and declaring the entire thing off limits. Which, given the stuff that tends to be commercially imported is probably fair enough (except for the guy who hates the whole lot based on how he hated robotech - I hated robotech too. Yes, I really mean hated. I was a kid, and it was taking up half my morning cartoon slot. It was slow, boring, heavily edited, badly voiced, badly written etc, etc. I now merely enjoy watching it to make jokes about how bad it is. My suggestion: go see something else, anything else...).