Strength Damage Bonus for Lance?

Ridley's Cohort · Mar 1, 2005

Jdvn1 said:
I dont' see how it's tough to understand holding a lance in two hands. And that guy definitely looks like he'll get some extra damage there.

Not according to the RAW. There are no bonuses for using a spear on a mounted attack. Only western style lances. Sorry.

BTW, if you look carefully at that picture you can see why two-handed techniques are not normally done. Observe how twisted the upper torso of the rider is. In fact, his hips are twisted out of position on the saddle. One hard knock and he will fly out of his saddle. If he actually hits with his spear and holds on with both hands, he will definitely be thrown onto his butt.

The preferred technique of the Mongols was a light "lance" (a spear) used one-handed and overhand. Gave a lot less power but the spear would get ripped out of the rider's hand on a hard impact without risk of throwing the rider.

Jdvn1 · Mar 1, 2005

Ridley's Cohort said:
Not according to the RAW. There are no bonuses for using a spear on a mounted attack. Only western style lances. Sorry.

Does the SRD say 'western style' before the word 'lance'? I know my PHB doesn't. Sorry.

Ridley's Cohort · Mar 1, 2005

Jdvn1 said:
Does the SRD say 'western style' before the word 'lance'? I know my PHB doesn't. Sorry.

If you look at the pretty pictures provided in the PHB, I would not need to correct you.

Jdvn1 · Mar 1, 2005

Ridley's Cohort said:
If you look at the pretty pictures provided in the PHB, I would not need to correct you.

Wow, everyone's weapons look exactly alike? Gee, thanks for trying to correct me.

FireLance · Mar 2, 2005

Greylock said:
Which is what I am refering to, and most everyone else, when talking about a classic lance. The attached pic is cool, and it explains what you mean quite well, but that's what I'd call a spear, not a lance. Not an eggspurt, so it's IMHO... ;p

Not an expert either, so all I have to go by is my sense of what is reasonable for my game. To me, the image of using a classic western lance on foot in two hands (which is supposed to be fine by the RAW) is about as odd as using it two-handed while mounted. Which was why I always had trouble picturing that scene in Dragons of Winter Night (first Dragonlance trilogy) where the Knights of Solamnia used the footman's Dragonlances to kill the dragons in the High Clerist's tower. Subsequent Dragonlance artwork helped to clear up the matter a bit as some Dragonlances were portrayed as longspear-like weapons.

Anyway, for the purpose of my campaigns (and PH illustration notwithstanding), lances are simply longspears that have been weighted differently so that they can be used as a one-handed weapons while mounted, and reinforced to better deal damage during mounted charges. This accounts for the extra 1 lb of weight, the extra 5 gp of cost, and makes it into a martial weapon. After all, its other game statistics (reach, 1d8/x3 piercing damage) are identical to that of the longspear.

While mounted, a lance can be used in one hand as a one-handed weapon if the wielder wants the extra protection of a shield, or in two hands as a two-handed weapon if the wielder wants to deal more damage (assuming he has a high enough Strength, of course).

Ranger REG · Mar 2, 2005

Greylock said:
Lances when used dismounted require the use of two-hands. They are desgned however to be used from the back of a horse. And that design enables them to be used one-handed while getting two-handed benefits. I don't see what's so hard about that.

And the idea of using one two-handed whilst mounted is a ridiculous image.

Not really a ridiculous image at all, since the spear preceded the lance. It is because of the disadvantage of spear that lance came into being as an improvement for mounted attack.

Nevertheless, I once believed that a lance used one-handed does not benefit from two-handed use ... that is until someone pointed out that Power Attack feat would make lance a worthless weapon than say a two-handed greatsword while mounted, especially if you combine Power Attack with Spirited Charge. I prefer to keep lance as a superior mounted weapon.

Legildur · Mar 2, 2005

Ranger REG said:
I prefer to keep lance as a superior mounted weapon.

And therein lies my reason for accepting the RAW without further consideration. And I would think that it would also guide others to making their own ruling.

If you accept that lances are the pinnacle of mounted combat, then accept that they gain all the benefits of a two-handed weapon (as per the RAW) while wielded in one hand if mounted during a charge.

If you do not accept, then house rule away using Rule 0.

Otherwise, why is there so much argument on a rules forum when the RAW are relatively clear (as Hypersmurf pointed out)?

Storyteller01 · Mar 2, 2005

So why not use the strength of the mount to determine damage, at least for a charge? It IS the animals inertia that produces damage. The human 'strength' factor is channeling the shock in such a way as to stay on the horse...

My two cents...

Storyteller01 · Mar 2, 2005

Some pics for comparison...

Note the method of carry/attack. Under the arm, to absorb impact. Of course, I have a hard time visualizing a lance attack the isn't in front of the horse (or at least at a 45 degree from the front).

Hard to see how using two hands would provide additional power. Stability maybe, but power?

FireLance · Mar 2, 2005

Oh, I do houserule away. However, even by my houserules:

A lance wielded one-handed is still superior to any other one-handed weapon when used in a mounted charge.

On a mounted charge, a bastard sword does 1d10+Str bonus.
On a mounted charge, a lance does 2d8+2xStr bonus.

On a Spirited charge, a bastard sword does 2d10+2xStr bonus.
On a Spirited charge, a lance coes 3d8+3xStr bonus.

A lance wielded two-handed is still superior to any other two-handed weapon when used in a mounted charge.

On a mounted charge, a two-handed sword does 2d6+1.5xStr bonus
On a mounted charge, a lance does 2d8+2x1.5xStr bonus

On a Spirited charge, a two-handed sword does 4d6+2x1.5xStr bonus
On a Spirited charge, a lance does 3d8+3x1.5xStr bonus

The two-handed sword only outperforms the lance during a Spirited Charge when the wielder has no bonus to damage, by 0.5 points of average damage: 4-24 vs 3-24.

However, a bonus to damage from any source, e.g. Strength, Power Attack, a magic weapon, etc. shifts the advantage back to the lance. A single point of bonus damage makes it 6-26 vs 6-27, and the advantage to the lance increases with every point of bonus damage, because bonus damage triples instead of doubles for a lance used in a Spirited Charge.

Strength Damage Bonus for Lance?

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Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.

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