City building discussions

Ok...well...hrmm


My party has taken a wierd turn for the unadventurous. Namely they have begun building a mote and bailey town with a projection for a future city.

Playing an almost birthright game at the moment, this delaying tactic has thrown me off.

Yeah great they have a base of opporations but the party topped even that feat of skill by hiring a Dwarven diviner to hunt down an underground gold vein. (which he found, dagnab those lucky rolls)

So A) how much should the total cost for a city for over 25,000 people. ( To create, and maintain it)

B) How many years should that take in an advanced stage of purposeful building, and emigration.

C) In a world close to an Ice age how do they keep the city from being covered in snow. The parties solution was to build a gargantuan furnace beneath the city that would push (via a large billows) heat into copper tubing ( thanks to the industrious dwarves) that would be strung out and pumped full of mote water thus heating the cobbled streets above.

Then to top it off the Party has this idea that they can create an large dome made of leaves that have been turned to stone in such a way to interlock over the entire city.

Then on top of that they have hired a Druid to create a pair of statues that cast a Anti magic field over the entire city specific to blocking Arcane Magic.

Re: Help me rationalize this!!!

B) How many years should that take in an advanced stage of purposeful building, and emigration.

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Rough estimation? Five years. If 25,000 people aren't there allready.

C) In a world close to an Ice age how do they keep the city from being covered in snow. The parties solution was to build a gargantuan furnace beneath the city that would push (via a large billows) heat into copper tubing ( thanks to the industrious dwarves) that would be strung out and pumped full of mote water thus heating the cobbled streets above.

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Smooth. But, really, they're shooting themselves in the foot if you're going to allow them to cancel out all magic. Seeing as they could use magic to have a 'Heat Shield' cast on the Dome, or the a radiation of Endure Elements (Cold) that would protect the city from Cold damage, as well as the enhabitants.

Then to top it off the Party has this idea that they can create an large dome made of leaves that have been turned to stone in such a way to interlock over the entire city.

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I gotta ask how they're going to get the leaves in this dome formation above the city before turning 'em into stone. Or if turned to stone afterwards, how to get it ontop of the city.

Then on top of that they have hired a Druid to create a pair of statues that cast a Anti magic field over the entire city specific to blocking Arcane Magic.

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I would not allow that. Unless you also allow wizards to cancel out Clerical magic, and Anti-magic that cancels out just the badguy's magical items...

Rule Zero: Any PC's that own/part-own a city or other such unadventurous/book-keeping heavy/DM-taxing enterprise become NPC's.

No save.

Have their new characters come visit the city (preferably a year or more of gametime after the conclusion of the previous campaign). Give them a glimpse of their old characters in their new role as town-rulers. Let them see what a bunch of greedy, overweight, party-pooping a**holes their old characters have become.

That'll learn 'em.

Better idea. Buy the Stronhold Builder's Guidebook and let them build a city.

As long as they are having fun, who cares about the story? Besides, eventually they will get bored and go back to killing dragons...if only to add on an expansion for their new catapults.

ConcreteBuddha said:

As long as they are having fun, who cares about the story? Besides, eventually they will get bored and go back to killing dragons...if only to add on an expansion for their new catapults.

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Or make some deals with the local white dragons (it IS an ice age) to help protect the city, in exchange for some tribute.

I think that running a city, protecting it, dealing with it, dealing with problems, being the head of the Watch, getting into political intrigue, etc etc, would be FUN.

Xarlen said:

Or make some deals with the local white dragons

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Who do you think the catapults are for?

I think that running a city, protecting it, dealing with it, dealing with problems, being the head of the Watch, getting into political intrigue, etc etc, would be FUN.

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Exactly. DnD doesn't have to be:

Door--->Monster--->Kill--->Loot--->Door


Let the players' actions be your guide as a DM. Sometimes, forcing players to turn right when they want to go left makes for unhappy players. This isn't an absolute, but it's something to keep in mind.

A1 The leaves have already been used in such a way previously to make simi temporary structures for about a 1,000 refugees cought in a blizard, and the way they did it was to lay woven leaf mats over a wooden frame and then use some form off flesh to stone spell on the woven mat. Using mortar to fill in gaps, they built quite a few ramshackle homes that kept the snow out for the four days of snow.

Population right now is around 7,000 and growing (as builders, and labourers enter the city)

Also the Statues work much like the Ter'angrel from WoT that blocked Saiden, it only blocks Arcane magics, not ALL magics
Druids, Clerics, Paladins, and Rangers still can cast magics.

The Party Declared a NO SORCERERS ALLOWED.

And no they will not become NPC's I too like the Idea of the City intrigues, the epic battles to be fought, and the chance Assassination attempt of one of my Players PC's.

the 5 yr estimate was close to my 4yr one, and the Cost was upwards of 60,000 GP for what they were orriginally asking though it may be more considering the adventual Fortress Cost of the Dwarven made keep that they are asking for. Also the City map calls for two motes, and a rather large Millitary training school.

This is great

I have my PCs run a village (current pop 1245) but have not yet extended to a city. All I can say is that having PCs as town/city rulers can be as much fun as Pcs as dungeon raiding Dragonslayers (and see Reign of Fire for ideas on mixing the two). As Rulers of a settled population the PCs become responsible for a variety of things included making sure the harvest are brought in and people are fed, they must enforce laws, maintain peace and protect their citizens. They must contend with raids, assasination attempts, rebellion and petty crime. They must led negotiations with the local dragons/dwarfs/goblin tribes and deal with the local gods and monsters

I give settlements their own sats using 3d6 being - ECONOMICS (harvest, building and trade), CULTURE (Research and Education), ENFORCEMENT (Law and Politics), MILITARY (Defense and Diplomacy). Settlements also have their own skills (ie main professions of townsfolk) and Feats (technology/cultural practices)

Game sessions are played in two parts - the Town Phase (covering 1 month to 1 season) and the Adventure Phase (normal DnD)

Building
My formula for determining Building DCs is DC = 10 +(building cost/workers/time)

eg a Keep (Fighting School) cost 150,000 gp
you assign 3000 workers to this task and give them 5 years
DC = 10 + (150k/3k/5) = 20.
They could try to do it quicker or with less people but the DC would be higher eg over 2 years the DC would be 35

After we ran the RttToEE my players purchased the moat house. Went on a quest to find an orb of destruction and dropped it on Obelsisk, destroying it forever(or did they). Then they built the moat house up. At first they had compettions the Jousting, a hero's fair sort of thing. This was totally a break from the norm, which was cool. To be honest I never had so much from as a dm. Everything is a possible hook. But everything to them that you take time to describe they think is there to take over. Yeah they will get Paranoid. But just go with it, it is a blast.

Begining color map of the City (Party drew tonight)

Here is the art from the City concept drawing ( I am in the process of coloring the picture.