City building discussions

[mythusmage]

Re: Begining color map of the City (Party drew tonight)

Here is the art from the City concept drawing ( I am in the process of coloring the picture.

(picture snipped)

Other then the moat, I don't see any water. A revision would be good.

Where the cost of building a city is concerned, don't worry about it. The city will build itself. What the players need to do is put a mechanism in place to regulate how the city gets built. Establishing streets, water supplies, a sewer system (if they're so inclined).

With a river they'll need to establish docks and a dockyard. The same thing with a freightyard. Most important, tanning and similarly odiferous operations must be put down wind. Establish where the prevailing winds come from, and put the tanneries etc. on the other side.

Expand and pave the roads. It will be expensive in the short run, and require the establishment of a military to guard, but it will be worth it in terms of the increased trade. Check some books on Roman and modern day road building. With heavy annual snowfall you'll have to spend more on maintenance. It also means extra care when it comes to drainage, so make inquiries with Canada's version of the Deptment of Transportation.

Construction? That'll start out as wooden buildings, stone will come later as personal wealth increases.

Gold. Use it to establish trade. Trade is where the real wealth comes. Renaissance Spain based her economy on gold, Renaissance England based hers upon trade. I think you get the picture.

Establish the city as a trade and manufactoring center. It'll last longer. Since you've got (potential) quarries nearby, your city could become a source of stone for other locations. It certainly could be a source of wood.

Along that same line, establish trade agreements with nearby communities. The increase in trade will more than offset the lower tarrifs.

Finally (for this installment), clear the woods around the city. You'll need the farmland. Believe me, you'll need the farmland. As a matter of fact, offer free farmland and a tax break for anyone willing to clear the land and settle. Also allow the settlers to homestead their new home. That is, after a period of time (7 years is traditional) the land belongs to the family in perpetuity. So long as the family lives there the land they own cannot be seized for any reason. Not even to satisfy a debt. They can sell it voluntarily, but they can't be forced to sell it. That should cut down on urban sprawl.

This post has gotten long enough, so I'll save something for later. Good luck with the project, and I hope it one day sees publication.

 

[Agback]

I dunno. Sure, there should be a way to create a protective dome around the city if that's what they really want to do. But a crackpot idea (and I'm not saying this is or isn't) shouldn't work no matter what, and they should be forced to go back to the drawing board and come up with something else.

Yes indeed! They are going to need a material stonger than stone, and better engineering than overlapping a few leaves, to build a dome over an entire city. Once they make it, it still has to stay up.

Regards,


Agback

 

[jgbrowning]

To Agback

yah, it does look that that doesn't it?

anyway ive actually made a system based off surviving building contracts we have of medieval times in england.. a good book called "Building in Medieval England down to 1540" by L.F. Salzman has a great appendix with contracts. The book is also amazing covering every aspect of medieval building you can think of. I then used the system to compute various structures that we have surviving records or historical estamations of cost about and it turns out to be pretty accurate when ran the other way.

I've had to do some decision making of course, which which im sure not eveyone wont agree with me on, but i've tried to make DnD equivalents to the structures that they built. mostly because of DnD's massively inflated weath system when opposed against actual medieval weath makes decision making imperative and not always applicable in all situations.... (vice but not versa? )

And medieval cities were much smaller, like you said. I was basing the size of his city based upon 1 inch = 1/2 mile scale that he posted and eyeballing the picture with that in mind. The city should be much smaller than that, but i was just giving him the numbers for something of the size he requested.

I plan on publishing the system eventually so you can have a field day telling me where i make my mistakes then...

joe b.

edit: actually i think i read his scale a bit wrong! sorry.. he said 1/2 inch was a mile.. that would drastacally increase the expense.. the city should be much smaller.

 

[Corwyn]

The problem I see is that a city needs to eat. Thus it needs farmland.
When the Ice age hits, and this city is buried under the snow in it's dome how are the people going to be fed?

And I agree with the above posts, it will take a lot longer for a city to grow than the time they have. Unless they go underdark

 

[cptg1481]

Oh How I Itch to be in this Game

What a great credit you are to the class of persons who call themselves Game Masters.

Kudos to you for finding a way to keep your game alive regardless of where the players take it.

I shall keep up with this thread above all others until it dies. The replies, (kudos to you who are too many to mention) have given me great ideas to use in my own game, which I intend to start soon.

This is exactly where I envision my potential game going...the PC's establishing new towns, areas etc after about 13-15 levels of caves and trolls (not litterally) and when they tire of the burden of leadership thier future characters can live in the lands that they have settled.

The new characters will have first hand knowledge (like a local) of the area and maybe even (crosses fingers) attachment (read hooks) and (even further wishing) the desire to expand and create lands and towns of thier own to infinity (or I die).

What a fleshed out world it will be in a few years planned, and played out in successive layers of rings from the simple desire of the previous players - too cool.

Heck, (I said heck ) I can even occasionally (if the players want) bring the higher leveled sires of the towns back for one shot challenges appropriate to ones of thier station.

What a great thing...cool thread,

 

[mythusmage]

The Coming Cold Snap

That's gonna be a problem .

Since divine magic will be allowed, the city clerics and druids should inquire with their gods about ways to bring sunlight into buildings. Use that to light and heat hot houses and growing sheds.

Spells to improve agricultural productivity would also help. As would spells against plant pests and diseases.

There is a new city in Sweden, up above the Arctic Circle. Can't remember the name, but I do remember that the city planners deliberately used winding streets, to eliminate high winds roaring through the burg. Works pretty good.

They also built for the climate. All buildings are low to the ground, with sloped roofs to shed snow. Thick double walls with insulation to keep the cold out. Check out old Russian architecture for a few hints.

When the ice age does hit, get into the fur trade. Not just for luxury goods, but for your citizens as well. But, in the case of fur clothing made for domestic consumption, the fur goes on the inside. For looks on the outside, for warmth on the inside. It makes a big difference. Also, don't rely entirely on fur trappers, establish fur farms in addition.

Very important. Since the city will be in the middle of a tough area, establish tough ordinances against spoilage. A death penalty against pollution would not be out of order. (There are hundreds of square miles of Siberia that'll be utterly unusable for centuries thanks to Soviet policies.) Land will be in short supply. Same with water, and the atmosphere locally can turn bad quicker than you'd think. Especially with a dome. So nip it in the bud from the start.


As to the proposed dome, play it straight with the group, that should discourage them. The sheer scale of doming over a city about a quarter of a square mile in size alone should prove daunting. Not to mention the astronomical cost and the engineering problems (wood aint that strong I'm afraid). With modern engineering and materials it would be possible. With medieval engineering and materials, it aint gonna happen. The framework for the dome alone would need a support structure that would cost more than the players could ever accumulate, and occupy the space the city is supposed to be.

It would be a lot cheaper (and certainly more feasible) to make the city cold weather proof than to build a dome.

BTW, thatch would work better than leaves.

That's my contribution for this time around.