What's the appeal of Hackmaster

(sing-song voice) Hel-lo, everyone!

I know, I know, Henry. It's just that the "edition wars" is such an old argument...

Ladies and gentlemen, the truth! It's all about the nostalgia!

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Maybe for that person. I never played 1e. I was overjoyed with 3e when it came out because it fixed so many of the problems I had with 2e. 3e is my setting of choice but I still love my Hackmaster game. I never played it because I missed the "good ol days." I played it because I had heard positive things and the game delivered. The irreverence and fun and the flexibility it allows me to take in both role playing and character creation has made it nothing but a positive experience.

Contrary to what many posters of this board think, Hackmaster has quite a large following of gamers who find its ruleset prefereable to the radical alterations of 3E. A lot of it comes down to deviation from the source material. My prevailing philosophy is that anything that helps the game, while still keeping its most essential elements, is good for the game as a whole.

However, there is a strong contingent (judging from Hackmaster sales estimates I saw, anywhere from 35,000 on up) of players who feel that, while changes can be a good thing, the changes to 3E went waaay too far. It's kind of like changing the engine, bumpers, cab, trunk hood, transmission, and dashboard and seats out on a car, and still calling it the same car. Each change by itself is small; but taken together, it's no longer the same car, but a NEW car.

Then you have the fans of Hackmaster (such as myself and Col Hardisson) who enjoy it for the fun, and partly for the nostalgia. I myself accept the changes in 3E, and my players are all fans of d20 who most of whom say they will never, ever, ever, ever, ever go back to 1st or 2nd edition, for the same reason they will never wash clothes using lye soap and a river rock. I could do either, but prefer 3E. But 3E being the new lingua franca of gamers everywhere is not necessarily accepted by all - and you don't have to be a luddite not to accept it.

A lot attracts me about hackmaster.

But I suppose that the biggest thing is that Hackmaster gave me the best chance of ending sessions in a howling screaming inferno of a wreck complete with both laughter and role-playing.

Our multiple TPKs were filled with both humor and well-played courage.

The character creation is fun and I have to admit to a great deal of fondness for the many difficult classes like cavalier and berserker.

It's all about breakin' things and killin' stuff.

What's not to love?

Not having played the game, I think Jondor is right. It's called HackMaster, you hack-and-slash your way through everything. Kill anything that stands in your way and "point-whore them e.p.s" as the Knights themselves said. Gotta love it.

"Out, Damned Spot! Yet who would have had thought the old man to have had so much… in him." Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 1

I weary of these Hack vs. 3E threads. But alas, like a train wreck, you just can't look away. I wonder if the Hack guys like Diaglo understand that they do more harm for their little niche game with comments like the "crap is still crap" crap. Thats a bunch of crap. Invariably the pro Hackmaster people who start these threads get their asses handed to them time after time, and yet seem not to learn.

No, 4E Hack is not what 3E should/could have been. No, Hack players do not "get it" in regards to roleplaying any more than 3E players. No, it is not THE best (its nice though) game ever created. Get over yourselves. Geesh!

But then, I could be getting myself in trouble again (posting at 5 in the a.m.) ah well.

Oh, and just for fun (thinking way ahead) for my next campaign, in my spare time I've been converting "Little Keep" over to 3E. It converts quite nicely BTW.

The rabid 3E hating Hackmaster lovers (you know who you are) may now go into collective apoplexy.

diaglo said:

4ed HM is what 3ed should have been. almost. just get rid of some of the jokes/sarcasm.

edit: Hi Jester

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And 3e is what 2e should've been. Do you think anyone would've bought "serious" hackmaster? I mean just buy 1e / 2e again?

Numion said:

And 3e is what 2e should've been. Do you think anyone would've bought "serious" hackmaster? I mean just buy 1e / 2e again?

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What, no one is gonna buy D&D3.5e they just announced?

Sure you could spend a few months trying to find 1/2e books on eBay and piece it all together or you can by the PHB and have it in one book.

Hackmaster is what some gamers find to be AD&D while others see D&D3e as it. Personally I don't see 3e as D&D anymore except in name. The system has changed far to much to be considered D&D that I know. I've played it (for about a year) and it was fun but once I was introduced to HM I quickly realized what I was missing. The system is similar enough to 1/2e as to not be completely different but has enough changes to add something else. Kenzer gives their customers very good product and knows what the fans like. They have the drive and desire that has been lost by companies like TSR/WotC. Few others have such a good customer relationship and product.

I wonder if the Hack guys like Diaglo understand that they do more harm for their little niche game with comments like ...

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It's amazing how dedicated Kenzer is to supporting this 'niche' game.

No, it is not THE best (its nice though) game ever created. Get over yourselves. Geesh!

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... get over yourself. It is the best game to some of us, like 3e is to you.