Chaosium Releases Basic Role Playing SRD

Morrus · Apr 8, 2020

Dreamscape said:
That resulted in the Cepheus Engine, which now has a large user base.

Well that's not true, is it?

TrippyHippy · Apr 8, 2020

Morrus said:
Well that's not true, is it?

Not really, no. Cepheus has had some support certainly, but really the sales are essentially PDF driven and account for a fraction of the sales that Traveller makes overall.

The 2nd edition of Mongoose Traveller seems to be more focussed on concentrating on its own core setting than the 1st edition was, which has seen an increase in product for that setting. While I was not in any way privy to contractual decisions made by either party, the outcome seems to suggest that the new license prioritized protecting and supporting Marc Miller’s IP more than giving opportunities to 3rd party publishers.

Dreamscape · Apr 8, 2020

Morrus said:
Well that's not true, is it?

I didn't say it was larger than MGT2, nor am I privy to sales figures for either Mongoose or 3rd party Cepheus Engine publishers. This discussion is in the context of the OGL, and by "large number of users" I am referring to the fact that most former 3rd party MGT1 publishers have converted their MGT1 back catalogue to CE, and have been putting out new product at a respectable rate for the last 2 years or so.

Michael O'Brien · Apr 8, 2020

TrippyHippy said:
The problem as I see it is the attempt to create an ‘open licence’ for the rules when a) it isn’t open

The BRP OGL is open to all who want to use it to publish their own settings, games, and unique ideas using the BRP system. Chaosium has walled off certain rules and certain settings, but if you have something you want to publish that Chaosium isn't already doing, you can. Without paying royalties, without Chaosium having residual rights. And you get to call it BRP. If that doesn't mean much to you, no worries don't use it.

So why is the BRP OGL different from the WotC OGL? Largely because Chaosium's business model is different to WotC's. Chaosium's settings are what are valuable to the company - the cosmology, entities, storylines, etc. of RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, etc. Some rules tie directly into these settings - e.g. the Runes of RuneQuest, or the Sanity mechanic of Call of Cthulhu. Chaosium has removed those mechanics that are uniquely tied to a given setting (or with a specific edition of a game) but let you do whatever you want with the rest.

TrippyHippy said:
and b) the system is already openly used under a multitude of other names.

If you want to make a game off Chaosium's BRP engine and call it that, now you can. In your own use of the SRD, you are welcome to add anything you want to it – as long as you avoid Prohibited Content (and don't violate others' copyright, obviously). You get to call it BRP and use the logo. If this is not a consideration for you, by all means go ahead and use something else.

TrippyHippy · Apr 8, 2020

Michael O'Brien said:
The BRP OGL is open to all who want to use it to publish their own settings, games, and unique ideas using the BRP system. Chaosium has walled off certain rules and certain settings, but if you have something you want to publish that Chaosium isn't already doing, you can. Without paying royalties, without Chaosium having residual rights. And you get to call it BRP. If that doesn't mean much to you, no worries don't use it.

So why is the BRP OGL different from the WotC OGL? Largely because Chaosium's business model is different to WotC's. Chaosium's settings are what are valuable to the company - the cosmology, entities, storylines, etc. of RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, etc. Some rules tie directly into these settings - e.g. the Runes of RuneQuest, or the Sanity mechanic of Call of Cthulhu. Chaosium has removed those mechanics that are uniquely tied to a given setting (or with a specific edition of a game) but let you do whatever you want with the rest.

If you want to make a game off Chaosium's BRP engine and call it that, now you can. In your own use of the SRD, you are welcome to add anything you want to it – as long as you avoid Prohibited Content (and don't violate others' copyright, obviously). You get to call it BRP and use the logo. If this is not a consideration for you, by all means go ahead and use something else.

Get back to me when anybody actually signs up to use this licence.

Dreamscape · Apr 8, 2020

19 pages of SRD is what you're left with after you strip out all the CoC setting-specific material from the 400-page Big Gold BRP Book? Hmm .... ;-)

dragoner · Apr 8, 2020

Morrus said:
Well that's not true, is it?

It is true, as one 3PP put it, to use the TAS program would be business suicide, precisely because the license has the 3PP's surrender their IP. As for players, Classic still has the most, with the old mongoose being split between Cepheus, and mong 1e or 2e.

TrippyHippy · Apr 9, 2020

dragoner said:
It is true, as one 3PP put it, to use the TAS program would be business suicide, precisely because the license has the 3PP's surrender their IP. As for players, Classic still has the most, with the old mongoose being split between Cepheus, and mong 1e or 2e.

Based on what data?

Firstly, there still are some third parties that actually use the TAS program. Whether its been business suicide for them I don’t know, but it doesn’t seem likely. It just seems that the TAS works for them, while Mongoose themselves don’t seem flustered either way. Matt Sprange suggested they would look again at the TAS license when people complained about it, but nothing has happened since. Either he couldn’t, due to contractual arrangements, or it wasn’t a priority because it clearly hasn’t affected sales.

Secondly, there isn’t a reliable count on 'number of players’, as far as I am aware, beyond activity on the internet. This is a wholly unreliable measure. Most Mongoose Traveller fans I know from personal gaming, for example, don’t actually use internet forums at all, while I personally don’t post on 'Citizens of the Imperium’, even though I still am a paying member (must look into that), because I find the site hostile to Mongoose in general.

In terms of unit sales via retail, the entire Cepheus group represents a fraction of the sales made by Mongoose Traveller, and this mostly comprises of drivethru PDF sales. Mongoose Traveller maintains retail presence, are an officially licensed with Fantasy Grounds too, and also has had a series of very successful Kickstarter campaigns for specific supplements (particularly box sets). Classic Traveller remains available through various means, including some drivethru books also, but has no retail presence beyond eBay these days.

dragoner · Apr 9, 2020

A little defensive there, Tommy?

Classic is free on DTRPG, and Marc Miller still sells it on his own website: FFE- Far Future Enterprises: RPGs Role-Playing Games from GDW, IGI, and FFE It is still the big dog of Traveller, I doubt any other edition has touched even a tenth of a percent of its sales.

Maybe you should get back to Chaosium's OGL.

TrippyHippy · Apr 9, 2020

dragoner said:
A little defensive there, Tommy?

Classic is free on DTRPG, and Marc Miller still sells it on his own website: FFE- Far Future Enterprises: RPGs Role-Playing Games from GDW, IGI, and FFE It is still the big dog of Traveller, I doubt any other edition has touched even a tenth of a percent of its sales.

Maybe you should get back to Chaosium's OGL.

And maybe you need to read my post again. You could start by getting my username right!

I actually stated in my post that "Classic Traveller remains available through various means” and indeed I own Classic Traveller (in its entirety). However, it doesn’t maintain any retail presence ie it isn’t selling in shops or things like Amazon now. Younger gamers aren’t even aware of Classic Traveller, so it is simply incorrect to assume that it is the most popular version of the game currently. It is also incorrect to assume that Cepheus is making even the slightest impact on Mongoose Traveller’s sales or overall popularity.

And no, I’m not getting defensive. If anything, you were in your response to Morrus’ point. I’m just sticking with facts.

Chaosium Releases Basic Role Playing SRD

Morrus

Well, that was fun

TrippyHippy

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Dreamscape

Crafter of fine role-playing games

Michael O'Brien

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TrippyHippy

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Dreamscape

Crafter of fine role-playing games

dragoner

KosmicRPG.com

TrippyHippy

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dragoner

KosmicRPG.com

TrippyHippy

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