D&D 5E Using all 6 abilities for saves

Pauln6 · Oct 15, 2020

I've used 6 save homebrew since the start. Works fine. I use Wisdom to avoid being influenced but Charisma to avoid being dominated.

Horwath · Oct 16, 2020

Sir Brennen said:
Wait, you're doubling up on the Save Modifiers, still allowing proficiency, but only raising the base a single point?

My Str 20, Con 14 6th level fighter just went from +5 on his Con Save to +10 on his Fort Saves, but things he makes those saves against only went up a point?

I'd either take the average of the two stats involved in each save as you outline, or raise the Save DC to a 10 at least (which would make it easier for players to remember what their final Save DC is, IMO).

Or, since averaging in some cases may generally lower the save bonus (especially for classes that don't want/need both higher Wis and Cha, for example), just take the higher of the two stats listed. So the save bonus would basically stay the same for higher scores, and eliminate the need for fiddling with the DC formulas.

ok, maybe base 10 could work.
And you did get nice boost to for saves?
How about your reflex and will? what is your dex+int or wis+cha?

Weiley31 · Oct 16, 2020

Horwath said:
I would rather have return to 3 saves, Fort, Ref, Will
but with all 6 abilities used.

Fort: str + con modifier, current all str and con saves
Ref: dex + int modifier, current all dex saves
Will: wis + cha, current all int, wis and cha saves

Carbon 2185 actually legit does this system as it only has the 3 saves, but each save is a combination of two ability scores.

Sir Brennen · Oct 16, 2020

Horwath said:
ok, maybe base 10 could work.
And you did get nice boost to for saves?
How about your reflex and will? what is your dex+int or wis+cha?

Those both won't change for this particular character, each remaining at +1. Except technically now they're worse, if you raise the base value for calculating ability DCs.

But that's just it. The disparity between proficient saves with a high value for combined stat bonuses and non-proficient saves without a good save would be too much, IMO, under this system. By 14th level, if my character also maxed out Con, their Fort save would be +15, where my Ref and Will would be stuck at +1.

A spell cast at my PC by a 14th level wizard, maxed Int, would have a DC 20. Against either my +15 or +1 Saves. This is getting into 3E bad save/good save territory. It's breaking the bounded math of 5E.

And Str+Con save will greatly favor more character classes (and creatures) that tend to have those pumped up anyway. There's not a lot of classes that need 20's in both Dex and Int, or Wis and Cha. So attacks that trigger saves are almost always going to be better off targeting Ref or Will.

QuentinGeorge · Oct 16, 2020

Sir Brennen said:
Those both won't change for this particular character, each remaining at +1. Except technically now they're worse, if you raise the base value for calculating ability DCs.

But that's just it. The disparity between proficient saves with a high value for combined stat bonuses and non-proficient saves without a good save would be too much, IMO, under this system. By 14th level, if my character also maxed out Con, their Fort save would be +15, where my Ref and Will would be stuck at +1.

A spell cast at my PC by a 14th level wizard, maxed Int, would have a DC 20. Against either my +15 or +1 Saves. This is getting into 3E bad save/good save territory. It's breaking the bounded math of 5E.

And Str+Con save will greatly favor more character classes (and creatures) that tend to have those pumped up anyway. There's not a lot of classes that need 20's in both Dex and Int, or Wis and Cha. So attacks that trigger saves are almost always going to be better off targeting Ref or Will.

It will also make most Wizards better at Reflex saves than Will saves, which seems weird.