D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

Umbran · Dec 31, 2020

Scott Christian said:
Mmm, I have been avoiding the centaur battle. But this seems like rules here. Difficult terrain can be both: movement reduction and a skill challenge.

The point is that "difficult terrain" (in those words) is a defined game term, and has been the same in 3e, 4e, and 5e. If you point at squares on the map, and tell the players, "this is difficult terrain," they are going to expect reduced movement speed, and that's it. If the GM then also imposes Dex checks without warning, the GM would be violating players' expectations about the rules, which isn't what I'd call recommended procedure.

Making a specific skill challenge out of normal stairs for one character... seems kind of petty simulationism of questionable quality.

A quick bit of searching of youtube turns up several videos of horses climbing stairs. It is a little awkward, but it is not clear if that's because horses really aren't that bright, aren't used to it, or (very likely, imho) that horses eyes are not placed so they can actually see what's at their feet very well. None of those should hold for a centaur.

Argyle King · Dec 31, 2020

doctorbadwolf said:
Wait, who was it that was defending a tavern scenario wherein a tabaxi is discriminated against “because claws”?

It wasn't me, but I might feel negatively toward White Claws.

I'm not sure if this is the case elsewhere, but I've seen a lot of tabaxi played as though they're khajiit from Elder Scrolls. I have no idea if that's the case for younger players (or other players at all). The media that I and those around me have been influenced by is likely different than the influences shaping how others view the game.

Remathilis · Dec 31, 2020

Scott Christian said:
Mmm, I have been avoiding the centaur battle. But this seems like rules here. Difficult terrain can be both: movement reduction and a skill challenge. Think of ice. The DM can declare a DC check (I think 10 in the DMG) and make it difficult terrain. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Difference by degree. Regular ice-covered ground, like steep steps, are specifically called out as regular difficult terrain, but slippery ice is considered a wilderness hazard (along with things like avalanches or quicksand) that is specifically designed as an obstacle. So, unless the inn steps are a hazard on par with razorvine, its unnecessarily punitive.

Scott Christian · Dec 31, 2020

Remathilis said:
Aarakroca, to balance their flight, are claustrophobic and suffer a -3 to attack rolls when in an enclosed (building or dungeon) area.

This is like giving drow a penalty in sunlight...

Remathilis · Dec 31, 2020

Scott Christian said:
Um... the races talked about here are:
Drow - 2nd edition
Dragonborn - 4th edition (maybe 3rd edition, I really didn't play 3rd very much)
Tieflings - 4th edition (maybe 3rd?)
Centaurs - 5th?

So most of these are 20 years old. I don't think that is "new." Even in the geological timekeeping that is D&D.

Drow were first given stats in UA (1e). Dragonborn as a full-blooded race is 4e, but half-dragons go back as far as 2e. Tieflings were 2e. Centaurs were playable in 2e. However, age isn't the issue: they were all niche races either buried under racial penalties to discourage their play, in obscure supplements, or tied to specific settings so a lot of DMs could ignore them very easily.

Scott Christian · Dec 31, 2020

Umbran said:
The point is that "difficult terrain" (in those words) is a defined game term, and has been the same in 3e, 4e, and 5e. If you point at squares on the map, and tell the players, "this is difficult terrain," they are going to expect reduced movement speed, and that's it. If the GM then also imposes Dex checks without warning, the GM would be violating players' expectations about the rules, which isn't what I'd call recommended procedure.

Making a specific skill challenge out of normal stairs for one character... seems kind of petty simulationism.

A quick bit of searching of youtube turns up several videos of horses climbing stairs. It is a little awkward, but it is not clear if that's because horses really aren't that bright, aren't used to it, or (very likely, imho) that horses eyes are not placed so they can actually see what's at their feet very well. None of those should hold for a centaur.

Yes. Agreed. But my point was the DM can point to a square and say, this is difficult terrain and if you attempt it there is also a skill challenge. If you fail the skill challenge you fall prone and slide one square in the last direction you moved. So the DM points at the stairs and says, when you go down the stairs, it is difficult terrain and you need to make an acrobatics check of 13 or fall down the steps.

And simulationism is a box that increases or decreases depending on the table. I have players that would insist the centaur roll. Because the player chose to play a centaur. I have others that want a speedier game. The point of a DM is to find that balance.

Scott Christian · Dec 31, 2020

Johnny3D3D said:
It wasn't me, but I might feel negatively toward White Claws.

I'm not sure if this is the case elsewhere, but I've seen a lot of tabaxi played as though they're khajiit from Elder Scrolls. I have no idea if that's the case for younger players (or other players at all). The media that I and those around me have been influenced by is likely different than the influences shaping how others view the game.

This is a great point how video games have certainly pushed the "common races" in different directions. But, it is also very easy to see those same video games limiting races because of programming, and also because of lore.

Oofta · Dec 31, 2020

When it comes to climbing stairs are we talking

or

My sister' cabin has a spiral staircase similar to the former. It reminds me of stairs in castles I've toured, some were even narrower. I wouldn't want to try climbing down it without a free hand. If it's the latter, then sure not a problem.

Sometimes there's just no one size fits all.

Scott Christian · Dec 31, 2020

Remathilis said:
Drow were first given stats in UA (1e). Dragonborn as a full-blooded race is 4e, but half-dragons go back as far as 2e. Tieflings were 2e. Centaurs were playable in 2e. However, age isn't the issue: they were all niche races either buried under racial penalties to discourage their play, in obscure supplements, or tied to specific settings so a lot of DMs could ignore them very easily.

Ah. Thank you for the clarification. It is appreciated.

Remathilis · Dec 31, 2020

Scott Christian said:
Yes. Agreed. But my point was the DM can point to a square and say, this is difficult terrain and if you attempt it there is also a skill challenge. If you fail the skill challenge you fall prone and slide one square in the last direction you moved. So the DM points at the stairs and says, when you go down the stairs, it is difficult terrain and you need to make an acrobatics check of 13 or fall down the steps.

And simulationism is a box that increases or decreases depending on the table. I have players that would insist the centaur roll. Because the player chose to play a centaur. I have others that want a speedier game. The point of a DM is to find that balance.

Tiefling PC: Ok, I go to the tavern.
DM: Ok, make a dex check?
Tiefling PC: WHY? rolls Ugh, a 3!
DM: your tail gets caught in the door as pass through. You take 1 point of bludegoning damage.
Tiefling PC: What? That's unfair! I would know how to get through doors with a tail!
DM: Yeah, well, you chose to be a tiefling. Maybe you should have been an elf if you want a speedier game!

D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

Umbran

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Argyle King

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Remathilis

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Scott Christian

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Remathilis

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Scott Christian

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Scott Christian

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Oofta

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Scott Christian

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Remathilis

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