D&D (2024) Change in Charisma Description

[Irlo]

In the end, it is a game. It will not matter if that word is included. I like the fact that you care about your students. But I think you are severely overestimating the impact of a word, out of the thousands of pictures, words, and non-verbal signals these students receive daily.

In the end, it's a game, so it won't matter if that word is not included.

I say that jokingly. It matters to you and others who would like to include attractiveness in the definition of Charisma. Perhaps you can take into account that it matters to other people, too, who would like to exclude it? Use it at your own table while keeping it out of the official rules?

In view of the pervasive influences that we're all steeped in, I suspect the effect of adding a word where it wasn't before would be as detrimental or more than having the word there in the first place. We've got a tiny space where attractiveness is not measured and scored, and that's getting taken away by a very deliberate act.

 

[Scribe]

In view of the pervasive influences that we're all steeped in, I suspect the effect of adding a word where it wasn't before would be as detrimental or more than having the word there in the first place. We've got a tiny space where attractiveness is not measured and scored, and that's getting taken away by a very deliberate act.

Yes indeed, and it sucks to have something taken away.

 

[le Redoutable]

well, if you want your character to have either Leadership or Morale, Beauty etc you just have ( and you must ) give him a good Cha value;
if you don't want to exert pressure in the realms of Cha then just put a 9-12;
you wouldn't cheat on the numbers, ( euh a little low on IQ sorry )
like if you want a Strong one you put points in Str
in fact I can't see where the problem lies ;
in Ad&d 2nd Ed Player's Option Skills and Powers, relative to Cha it was split into two sub-abilities ( Leadership and Appearance ) that could range from Cha-4 to Cha+4 ...

 

[le Redoutable]

I should add, that, perhaps you have nostalgia of 1st Ed Ad&d Unearthed Arcana ( Comeliness )

 

[BookTenTiger]

Again, as it stands right now, you can say: I am beautiful and have high charisma. What you can't say is: I have high charisma because I am beautiful. There is a difference between the two. I would like to expand the definition so a player can say that.

They don't have to be eloquent. They don't have to leaders. Heck, they don't even have to be confident. They can just sit there, and look handsome or gorgeous or stunning and that gives them their advantage. This would be an option instead of making every bard try to be witty and come up with eloquent phrases. This would be an option instead of having every paladin look serious and be ready to lead everyone. This would be an option instead of making every warlock or sorcerer confident. How about, a warlock that is only good at magic because his patron finds him beautiful? How about a bard that can give people inspiration just because he has a beautiful twinkle in his eye? How about a paladin that everyone follows just because he's "so freaking hot?"

That is what I am asking for. Because right now, according to the rules as they are written, those things don't exist.

To me, this breaks verisimilitude.

Physical beauty is skin deep. It has nothing to do with persuasive, deceptiveness, or whatever powers Warlocks, Paladins and Sorcerers.

In real life, social pressures give advantage to folks with symmetrical faces.

But in D&D, ability scores aren't how others perceive you: it's your innate ability and level of skill. To say someone is more skilled at performance and casting Eldritch Blast because they're beautiful breaks my suspension of disbelief.

 

[le Redoutable]

... and cosmetics might hide or enlighten inherent beauty ( just like a ring of protection adds to some skills or abilities )

 

[Scott Christian]

In the end, it's a game, so it won't matter if that word is not included.

I say that jokingly. It matters to you and others who would like to include attractiveness in the definition of Charisma. Perhaps you can take into account that it matters to other people, too, who would like to exclude it? Use it at your own table while keeping it out of the official rules?

Haha.

I have to say that this may seem to matter a lot to me, but it doesn't. I view it like this:

This is a forum to discuss OneD&D. It is a forum to discuss what they are doing and what we think they could add to improve it. We have had a lively discussion about charisma. I think it would be nice to have it in there. Clint does not. He thinks it might harm younger players. I don't share that opinion. But aside from that, I have learned some like it more as a house rule. For them, it would work better that way. Others don't even want it to go that far. I think it is a good thing to have learned this.

I do not think it has even a remote chance to make it in the rules. But it is healthy to discuss it. Because it allows people to share their views, and, in other ways, allows for us to extrapolate viewpoints on similar subjects. It may even allow for those subjects to branch out.

To me, this breaks verisimilitude.

Physical beauty is skin deep. It has nothing to do with persuasive, deceptiveness, or whatever powers Warlocks, Paladins and Sorcerers.

In real life, social pressures give advantage to folks with symmetrical faces.

But in D&D, ability scores aren't how others perceive you: it's your innate ability and level of skill. To say someone is more skilled at performance and casting Eldritch Blast because they're beautiful breaks my suspension of disbelief.

I can get behind this 100%. If it breaks yours (and many other's) verisimilitude, then let's toss the idea away. There is nothing worse than that. Since we're on that topic, I do have a question about halfling strength though... (I'm kidding, I'm kidding)

 

[le Redoutable]

I must point out that, some people ( me included ) have little or no interest in Fashion;
one bad point is, when you want a job you have to be well-dressed ( for the entretien d'embauche ) , and you will be judged on your appearance ( at least )
am I wrong, has it nothing to do with beauty/comeliness ??

 

[Deset Gled]

To say someone is more skilled at performance and casting Eldritch Blast because they're beautiful breaks my suspension of disbelief.

Snow White was able to cast Animal Friendship just because she was beautiful.

Derek Zoolander blocked a shuriken using only his beauty.

I don't even know where to start with how many Greek myths only happened because the gods used Divine Magic when they thought a mortal was beautiful.

If a Warlock's backstory was that they caught the attention of an Eldritch something solely because of their beauty, and because of that their Warlock pact powers are based entirely on how they look, I'd run with it.

 

[James Gasik]

Sure, maybe beauty can grant you magical powers. But it gets a little strange when you say "my lightning bolts are more potent because I won a beauty contest!".

It's not that you can't explain it (maybe it was a beauty contest in the Outer Planes?), or maybe you were allowed to take a dip in the Evergold. But that shouldn't be the explanation for every super beautiful spellcaster, should it? The PHB claims that Charisma's traits are "confidence, eloquence, and leadership". Of these, I presume it's confidence that powers Charisma-based magic (though maybe there's something to be said for eloquence and Verbal components); it's never been a well-explained concept.

Adding beauty to the mix doesn't make it any way less nebulous, but you have to look at it in a certain way for it to make sense. Not everyone is going to be able to do that.

The example of Snow White, however, does illustrate how Charisma works in D&D. The Wicked Queen is obsessed with her looks, and is the "second-fairest" in the land, according to her magic divining mirror.

But when she disguises herself as a withered old hag, she is still perfectly capable of using her Charisma to trick Snow White into taking a poisoned apple. If her Charisma score was based on her beauty, that might not have gone as well for her!