D&D 5E WotC to increase releases per year?

Dire Bare said:

I think it's okay to take inspiration from and write about cultures you don't belong to. But, especially today, you'll be well served to get some culturally relevant eyeballs on your work . . . cultural consultants or sensitivity consultants . . . to help you avoid any pitfalls.

When the next white dude writes his adaptation of Oriental Adventures for the DM's Guild . . . I'm not going to judge him for doing so, but he's going to have to work hard to convince me his work is worth looking at. If a team of Asian-diaspora gamers tackles a project like that, it gets an automatic look from me, I'm very interested. Of course, all of that is separate from quality . . . .

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I am interested in where playing characters of those ethnicities sits in the current climate. Is is cultural appropriation or "yellow face" for Caucasian and Western players to play ethnically Asian characters? Would it be considered acceptable if a Caucasian member of Critical Role, for example, created a played a character that was identifiably of African descent? Does it matter whether it is at home at a con, or on a stream? I honestly don't know the answer to the question, and as a middle class, white, straight identified American male, I am not sure I am qualified to answer.

Hasbro has got contacts with different Asian companies. I bet it can dare to allow to create new fantasy IPs based in no-Western cultures, of course hiring cultural consultants from different countries, but I warn these may be different points of view about their own countries. For example a Spanish cultural consultant would say Hernan Cortes was a monster, and other would say Hernan Cortes was helped by the own native for the end of the blooded tecocracy and the human sacrifices.

About Chinese market, I think after 2021 the things will be very different, even for China (let's say we see their own version of Perestroika), and the censorship rules may changed, allowing more undead monsters and like this.

I worry about the predjudices by Asians against their neighbour countries, or even against own compatriots from a different region. Something may be right in Taiwan but no tolerated by the current Chinese censorship.

Reynard said:

I am interested in where playing characters of those ethnicities sits in the current climate. Is is cultural appropriation or "yellow face" for Caucasian and Western players to play ethnically Asian characters? Would it be considered acceptable if a Caucasian member of Critical Role, for example, created a played a character that was identifiably of African descent? Does it matter whether it is at home at a con, or on a stream? I honestly don't know the answer to the question, and as a middle class, white, straight identified American male, I am not sure I am qualified to answer.

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What matters is intent, audience, and . . . well, how well you pull it off.

I've had players play "oriental" characters before (long time ago) and affect a horribly racist, stereotypical accent and behaviors. Ug. But it wouldn't necessarily have to go down like that.

If I was playing in a live-streamed game with an audience . . . I'd think twice before creating a character inspired by a marginalized culture not my own. It's not necessarily wrong to do so, but it's a minefield . . .

If your intent is respectful, and you are mindful of avoiding racist stereotypes . . . go for it, in your home game. If you make mistakes, own up to them and strive to do better.

Dire Bare said:

Yes. That was my point. @Oofta (if I understand correctly) felt that it's odd that we can do a Kaldheim without too much controversy, but a similar take on an Asian culture would be more difficult and controversial.

Oofta and I agree on the situation (I think), but not the "why" behind the situation. EDIT: It's not because those who follow a modern Norse faith are small in number relative to other faiths/cultures.

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I mean, I agree with @Oofta on this. I think it is largely due to size, not because of people's different experiences with prejudice.

I assure you that if interviewed everyone in Scandinavia, I could find someone who is offended by Kaldheim. Not very many mind you, but maybe a handful of people.

If I made a MtG set that was themed around a Messiah-like figure who was crucified, and a group of people who revere him after his resurrection, a lot of people are going to be offended. I mean, look at the response from the Catholic Church to the very funny Life of Brian. A bishop literally debated John Cleese on TV!

So I can assure you, the relative size of people's community's does weigh heavily in designers' minds.

Dire Bare said:

Yes. That was my point. @Oofta (if I understand correctly) felt that it's odd that we can do a Kaldheim without too much controversy, but a similar take on an Asian culture would be more difficult and controversial.

Oofta and I agree on the situation (I think), but not the "why" behind the situation. EDIT: It's not because those who follow a modern Norse faith are small in number relative to other faiths/cultures.

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I think it's two-fold.

There is no large population of people that are pseudo-pagans that worship Norse deities. Right or wrong, that's just a reality that numbers matter. For all intents and purposes it is a dead religion even if some people want to resurrect certain aspects of it from the ashes of what we know.

Second, Norse deities show up in a variety of fiction with all sorts of "unique" depictions, appearing in D&D is not any worse than the MCU.

Urriak Uruk said:

I mean, maybe. But at that point, the writers may just say "Hey, this isn't really Kara-Tur anymore apart from the name and landmass, so why don't we just make up something entirely new?"

If you consider how Magic the Gathering has handled setting like Yamigawa, I think it's safe to say that they'll be inventing entirely new planes than revisiting ones with such tropes invented by white authors. For example, take this Global Series they released to appeal to a Chinese audience (made with contributions from Chinese authors);

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They might very well do that--make Yamigawa instead of Kara Tur. That would neatly cover official Asian-style settings as well as let them continue to support their MtG-to-D&D trend. Of course, then you're limited to what MtG has produced, and darn it, I want PC hengeyokai! (Although they'd probably turn spirit folk into elves, and nobody needs that.)

But I'm not sure that "Kara-Tur In Name Only" would be enough, in and of itself, for them to toss the setting. As we've seen from the upcoming Ravenloft book, they seem to be completely deconstructing the setting. Several domains are completely different from what they used to be: Dementlieu is going from arts and culture-dominated Gay Paree plus with control to "Twisted Fairy Tales," and Falkovnia has gone from being an oppressive military dictatorship ruled by the lovechild of Vlad Tepes and Adolph Hitler to a zompocalypse domain. With that in mind, actually making Kara Tur historically accurate instead of pop-culture-based isn't really a huge stretch.

LuisCarlos17f said:

For example a Spanish cultural consultant would say Hernan Cortes was a monster, and other would say Hernan Cortes was helped by the own native for the end of the blooded tecocracy and the human sacrifices.

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It's just gross that anyone can hold the latter opinion seriously...

Faolyn said:

They might very well do that--make Yamigawa instead of Kara Tur. That would neatly cover official Asian-style settings as well as let them continue to support their MtG-to-D&D trend. Of course, then you're limited to what MtG has produced, and darn it, I want PC hengeyokai! (Although they'd probably turn spirit folk into elves, and nobody needs that.)

But I'm not sure that "Kara-Tur In Name Only" would be enough, in and of itself, for them to toss the setting. As we've seen from the upcoming Ravenloft book, they seem to be completely deconstructing the setting. Several domains are completely different from what they used to be: Dementlieu is going from arts and culture-dominated Gay Paree plus with control to "Twisted Fairy Tales," and Falkovnia has gone from being an oppressive military dictatorship ruled by the lovechild of Vlad Tepes and Adolph Hitler to a zompocalypse domain. With that in mind, actually making Kara Tur historically accurate instead of pop-culture-based isn't really a huge stretch.

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I honestly don't know the right answer here (I am not of Asian descent), but this does remind me of how 5E did update Chult, and made it a bit more palatable to the modern era, such as making Chult independent instead of a foreign colony. But that even with these changes, there were critics who found it intolerant anyway.


And as someone who listens to Dragon Talk, the hosts have acknowledged that mistakes were made. I think it is entirely possible that they've decided internally that regions like Kara-Tur are beyond saving, that that to appeal to other cultures, they need to start from scratch. I'm not sure if that's the best way forward or not, or if entirely deconstructing things and keeping the names and landmass is ok, but I'm sure they've considered both.



I mean, even if you rebuild this entire culture, government and people from the ground up, this landmass still looks so lazy. This is just inverted Asia!

Reynard said:

I am interested in where playing characters of those ethnicities sits in the current climate. Is is cultural appropriation or "yellow face" for Caucasian and Western players to play ethnically Asian characters? Would it be considered acceptable if a Caucasian member of Critical Role, for example, created a played a character that was identifiably of African descent? Does it matter whether it is at home at a con, or on a stream? I honestly don't know the answer to the question, and as a middle class, white, straight identified American male, I am not sure I am qualified to answer.

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As I said earlier, we don't want to segregate gamers due to their ethnicity. That's also wrong.

And secondly, if it's your home game, then no, it doesn't matter. We can't and shouldn't police what people do in their home. All you can do is, if you find out people you know are being bigots at home, is to then not associate with them.

It really comes down to trying to play the role honestly. I'm an asexual, autistic woman. I don't care someone wants to play an asexual or autistic person, or if a man wants to play a woman. Yes, there are going to be people--a lot of people--who are going to play those roles "wrong." Playing a woman just for sexual reasons (I knew a guy in college who said he liked playing women because 'they can have multiple orgasms'); playing an asexual person just so they can be "cured," playing an autistic person for ableist laughs. If I discover media where someone is playing those roles in a bigoted way, I will not watch/listen to/read that media, and I'd likely tell my friends how bigoted that is. If I discover that one of my friends was playing someone like that to make fun of the group, that person would likely quickly become an ex-friend.

But on the other hand, they may also play them "right," by which I mean, play them like people. Because when you get down to it, what's most important is realizing that people are people.

As an aside: one of my friends told me earlier in the week that he kickstarted a book collection of mini-LARPs, one of which is "specifically about what it's like to be asexual in a society that doesn't grok that" (written by someone who is asexual). Personally, I find it kinda weird, because from what he told me, it sounds more like a bit of theraputic roleplay rather than an actual game, but LARPs can be weird like that. And this might end up educating some people.

For me, it's not just Eastern Asian themes that I'd like to explore. There are various types of social structure and spiritual beliefs that I tend to shy away from because I know I'd make such a hash of them. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to introduce them as campaign components.

Things like ancestor worship, spirits of the land, religions that are based on some of the beliefs of tribal cultures without being insulting. Not to mention things like how to include elements of an Arabian knights, so on and so forth.