D&D 5E D&D Head Talks Future Plans (Sort Of)

Ruin Explorer · Apr 22, 2021

Charlaquin said:
They all did, during the open playtest. The problem is that the demographics have shifted quite a lot since then. I don’t think any of them would pass that threshold today.

The open playtest didn't apply the 70% approval threshold IIRC. They pre-decided that certainly classes were in come hell or high water, and other classes were never tried. I could be misremembering of course, but I think not.

AFAIK the 70% threshold emerged after that as a test specifically for the UA stuff. Either way I concur that they wouldn't pass it now. Some would be nuclear-rejected (Warlocks, Bards, probably Druids).

Charlaquin said:
According to the polls you’re in the majority on that. That’s why the feats, subclasses, and spells that worked that way made it through the UA process where no mechanically distinct psionics system has.

Obviously this is unprovable but I suspect that puts him in the minority of people who would actually use Psionics in their games, but the issue is there are like double-digit percentages of people who actively oppose Psionics being in D&D at all (incomprehensible to me, but maybe that's an artifact of starting with 2E), and will always, always vote for the most minimal possible implementation if "NO!!!!" isn't an option. For them I guess it's like "If you're going to pee in my garden, at least go in a corner!" or something.

BMaC said:
Where's Mike Mearls on the organization chart these days?

Last I heard he was part of the people in charge of the overall D&D franchise, which is not the same as D&D the RPG as they sort of outline here. Specifically "Franchise Creative Director", which is one of those positions that doesn't necessarily have to exist

Jaeger · Apr 22, 2021

Parmandur said:
I hope that we get some sort of tell-all book about the 5E behind the scenes, similar to Art & Arcana.

The tell-all book I want to read would be all about the rise and fall of 4e.

Especially the juicy bits about the internal reaction and fallout when pathfinder started to outsell 4e. Then we can read about all the internal politicking that lead up to who got to be in charge of 5e.

That would be a sweet and juicy tale indeed!

Ruin Explorer said:
...It's particularly bad as I strongly suspect that if there was any kind of spell-point-based caster properly woven into 5E they'd be extremely popular (Sorcerer ain't it).

Functionally the ‘spell slot’ is a spell point system on a 1:1 spend per spell. By level of course. And that’s spell level which has no correlation with your characters level; because D&D.

Whereas any other game not trying to pretend that they are still doing some kind of Vancian casting would have the spell level be the same as your casters character level.

You would get “magic points” similarly to how you get hit points, and higher level spells would cost more magic points to cast than lower level ones. And of course you can fiddle around how they refresh through rests or hit dice expenditure.

With some spells being able to be “powered up” by spending more magic points or even hit points for certain spells.

A more straightforward way of doing magic.

But it will never happen.

Because people will complain: “That’s not D&D!”

Ruin Explorer · Apr 22, 2021

Jaeger said:
But it will never happen.

I'm not completely sure about that. I don't think it'll ever be the default approach, but I'd be unsurprised if 6E had a class with what were effectively spell points either at launch or early on (not like the Sorcerer, though it might be the Sorcerer in that edition).

I think the main bar is actually the spell list at this point. That's a lot more sacred than Vancian casting to players. D&D has to support these fire-and-forget spells with specific effects (which I will admit magic systems which are hard non-Vancian are not usually great at supporting), and a huge giant list of them too, so the space you can fit a spell point system in is a bit smaller.

Honestly I think it would just take a bit more bravery, cut down the giant list a bit and use the space for a more effect-oriented system for a spell point caster (which could also be used for Psionicists).

Hussar · Apr 22, 2021

Erdric Dragin said:
I could rant forever on their terrible failure of incorporating psionics into D&D side-by-side with magic. It's not a difficult thing to do, it's been in every single editon, if people can't accept it now, they never will so just force it to happen. Who's really going to quit the game because they chose to put a Psionic class as core? Sure some will ignore it out of spite and tell their players don't even bother, but eventually it's going to be accepted over time and soon everyone's using it. No player should accept a DM saying no to Psionics just because of misguided feelings of Psionics from previous editions.

Why would that happen now? In the past, psionics largely kerplunked into the game, either partially or totally ignored by many tables. And trying to force a DM to accept a new set of rules just because you want to play them is very much a non-starter. It's not like psionics was ever a major part of the game at any point in time in the past.

Hussar · Apr 22, 2021

EllisEthel said:
Why can’t they just say what is coming out?

Because if they do, and then something goes sideways, the sturm and drang and wailing and gnashing of teeth is just freaking unbelievable.

Hussar · Apr 22, 2021

Ruin Explorer said:
/snip

Obviously this is unprovable but I suspect that puts him in the minority of people who would actually use Psionics in their games, but the issue is there are like double-digit percentages of people who actively oppose Psionics being in D&D at all (incomprehensible to me, but maybe that's an artifact of starting with 2E), and will always, always vote for the most minimal possible implementation if "NO!!!!" isn't an option. For them I guess it's like "If you're going to pee in my garden, at least go in a corner!" or something.
/snip

My ears are burning.

Yeah, I'm one of those. If you're going to add psionics to the game, which I really don't feel it needs or fits, then a most minimal implementation will always get my vote. I have zero interest in classes where I have a player at the table playing a completely different game than everyone else. Nor do I have any interest in learning the mechanics of such a game. So, it either has to fit with existing classes or I'd rather it wasn't there at all and let DM's Guild handle it.

I mean, I can't have a warlord class and that's nowhere near as disruptive to the game as adding psionics which affects PC's, monsters and a host of other things. So, adding in a whole new mini-game just to add something that I don't even want in the first place is never going to get my vote.

UngainlyTitan · Apr 22, 2021

BMaC said:
Where's Mike Mearls on the organization chart these days?

The the best of my recollection he is "Lore man " for the video games section.

Ruin Explorer · Apr 22, 2021

Hussar said:
My ears are burning.

Yeah, I'm one of those. If you're going to add psionics to the game, which I really don't feel it needs or fits, then a most minimal implementation will always get my vote. I have zero interest in classes where I have a player at the table playing a completely different game than everyone else. Nor do I have any interest in learning the mechanics of such a game. So, it either has to fit with existing classes or I'd rather it wasn't there at all and let DM's Guild handle it.

I mean, I can't have a warlord class and that's nowhere near as disruptive to the game as adding psionics which affects PC's, monsters and a host of other things. So, adding in a whole new mini-game just to add something that I don't even want in the first place is never going to get my vote.

I get where you're coming from but I think the Mystic shows you don't need to do Psionics as this thing which requires recalibrating everything in 5E - you did in 2E, of course, but 5E doesn't even define "arcane magic" as a thing, so I don't think that really applies anymore. Unless they get the bright idea to bring back the 2E Psionicist in his full glory replete with mental attacks and defences and all PCs rolling for wild talents and so on lol, in which case your objections would very much make sense!

Also if we look at Worlds Without Number, which is very much a post-5E OSR game, you can pretty much seamlessly integrate the Psionic class from Stars Without Number to that, without doing any elaborate weird stuff, and I honestly think something like that might make a good model for a 5E or 6E Psion - it's a lot less complicated and space-requiring than other approaches, and doesn't really require learning a "mini-game", yet fulfils the whole "different system" deal. SWN has a free edition if you want to check it out (I'd obv. suggest moving to more fantasy descriptions, it's an SF-y take on psionics, but it's a decent match for a lot of fantasy lit magic).

UngeheuerLich · Apr 22, 2021

As frustrating it is that projects or classes I would have loved are canceled (without us knowing sometimes), it has everything to do with quality management.

It is often better to pull the plug than to release something with less than the expected quality. So even if some people are frustrated that their product did not make the cut, maybe it just was not as good as it should have been.

Representation and diversity and fan services are important, but better not to serve than serving something that is bad.
Often you can salvage those things in different products in a better way. Sometimes the concept was worth to be fleshed out and even though the product never sees light, basic principles spread into other products, that might make the product itself unnecessary.

Cancelling products also shows the will of a team to try something out if it can work and even put energy into it and risk a failure.

trappedslider · Apr 22, 2021

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D&D 5E D&D Head Talks Future Plans (Sort Of)

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