D&D General Dice Fudging and Twist Endings

EzekielRaiden · Feb 28, 2023

DMrichard said:
It’s important to know when best to fudge a number and when not to.

Indeed. The correct answer is "never."

jmartkdr2 · Feb 28, 2023

EzekielRaiden said:
Indeed. The correct answer is "never."

Never not fudge a roll - got it!

EzekielRaiden · Feb 28, 2023

jmartkdr2 said:
Never not fudge a roll - got it!

You joke, but I'm very serious. Don't fudge. Nothing productive you can do with fudging is impossible to do without fudging, and avoiding fudging means you don't have to (as the OP says) lie to your players.

Blue · Feb 28, 2023

DMrichard said:
It’s a Dungeon Master’s role to create and populate the many different strongholds, lairs, and other villainous locales that player characters delve within. This means when combat starts it’s also the DM who rolls for the dastardly villains that work against the players. This puts the DM in a rather powerful position as their role is hidden behind the screen.

Please note that "roll hidden behind the screen" is nowhere in the rules. It's a tradition from a more adversarial time, one furthered by the sale of DM screens which are just as useful to keep notes safe. But rolling hidden isn't part of the rules and many DMs, myself included, no longer hold with this tradition.

This isn't a screed for or against fudging. There are still plenty of ways to fudge if I was inclined, and regularly I will kill off the last foe standing when a blow leaves it with just a few HPs left - session pacing during limited gameplay time is more important than grinding every last possible resource expenditure out of the characters.

Umbran · Feb 28, 2023

EzekielRaiden said:
You joke, but I'm very serious. Don't fudge. Nothing productive you can do with fudging is impossible to do without fudging, and avoiding fudging means you don't have to (as the OP says) lie to your players.

Thing is, folks can be very selective about what they consider "lying to players".

The issue of "lying to players" can be handled before play ever begins in a Session Zero. It is between you and your players, not anyone else on these boards.

EzekielRaiden · Feb 28, 2023

Umbran said:
Thing is, folks can be very selective about what they consider "lying to players".

The issue of "lying to players" can be handled before play ever begins in a Session Zero. It is between you and your players, not anyone else on these boards.

Alternative facts can be quite popular, yes. I don't consider their popularity particularly relevant.

Clint_L · Feb 28, 2023

EzekielRaiden said:
Alternative facts can be quite popular, yes. I don't consider their popularity particularly relevant.

I really don't think that is what is intended.

For example, am I fudging rolls if I just decide that this particular action should be an automatic success in a certain context that comes up? And sometimes I'll make rolls behind the screen just to raise the narrative tension, especially if the players are taking too long. That's "lying" to them, but I don't think it's unethical.

Xamnam · Feb 28, 2023

Blue said:
Please note that "roll hidden behind the screen" is nowhere in the rules. It's a tradition from a more adversarial, one furthered by the sale of DM screens which are just as useful to keep notes safe. But rolling hidden isn't part of the rules and many DMs, myself included, no longer hold with this tradition.

DMG P. 235

Edit: Shown below in Cadence's post.

Ralif Redhammer · Feb 28, 2023

Umbran said:
I think this is inaccurate. My understanding is that most VTTs allow GMs to roll electronic dice privately.

If you want, there's nothing in online gaming that forces to even use electronic dice. In one of my favorite online games over the pandemic, the GM supported and assumed everyone would be rolling physical dice at home, and just telling him the results. It worked fine.

I'll certainly admit that I've only dabbled in Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds, mostly sticking to Discord with Avrae integration.

I've played in a couple online games where people were rolling their own physical dice and it mostly worked alright. There's only been one person that I really questioned whether their rolls were truthful.

Cadence · Feb 28, 2023

Blue said:
Please note that "roll hidden behind the screen" is nowhere in the rules. It's a tradition from a more adversarial, one furthered by the sale of DM screens which are just as useful to keep notes safe. But rolling hidden isn't part of the rules and many DMs, myself included, no longer hold with this tradition.

Edit: Ninja'd by @Xamnam while I was looking for it

I kind of like how the 5e DMG goes into it in the section on "Table Rules":

D&D General Dice Fudging and Twist Endings

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way

jmartkdr2

Hero

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Umbran

Mod Squad

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way

Clint_L

Hero

Xamnam

Loves Your Favorite Game

Ralif Redhammer

Legend

Cadence

Legend

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