D&D General Dice Fudging and Twist Endings

[jmartkdr2]

As I allow resurrection magic, I see few reasons to fudge dice. A combat going south because of poor dice rolls is a valid way for the game to proceed.

I find the players are more invested in dice-heavy scenes such as combat when they know their choices about risk are a key factor. They can play the mechanics, which are completely open and spelled out ahead of time, and that makes success sweeter because it feels fairly earned.

If I don't want that sort of risk, or I just don't trust the rules to give an engaging result, I just don't use dice. This is common in social encounters or puzzles, which either offer a different kind of challenge or just aren't challenging per se. I personally dislike rolling a die if I'm not going to follow the roll.

The only "never" I'll say is "never tell the players you fudged a roll." Even if you did.

 

[Clint_L]

I have found fudging rolls to lead to worse game experiences and worse story outcomes than just letting the dice fall where they may, so nowadays not only do I never fudge, but I also roll my dice out in the open with the players unless there is a compelling reason not to (i.e. a situation where the characters would not know the result of the roll). The suspense of knowing that their fate is truly up to luck and their own wiles is far, far more rewarding for players than any ending I could impose. But that's just me.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I will say this: if you are a new DM and learning how to balance your game to the style your group wants to play, it is ok to fudge something when you messed up.

For example, TPK due to Exploding Acid Zombies??? (a true story)

In my new group, I joined them already in progress with a new DM. We were 2nd or 3rd level (I don't recall exactly), when (foolishly) the party split up and he had a couple attacked by a zombie. The rest of us heard the fight and arrived a couple rounds later. The first zombie was almost dead and a second was joining the fray. We were in close quarters when the first zombie was destroyed---and exploded acid over everyone! Now, that might not be so bad, but the damage was 4d6 acid, DEX save for half.

At this point, most of us were injured, and many failed the save. Well, when damage was rolled the DM rolled 23 points! Two PCs died outright due to overflow damage equal to hit point maximum, everyone else went to 0 hp and started making death saves. No 20's. At this point, a couple made saves to become stable, but the second zombie finished them off.

First, the new DM didn't realize 4d6 AoE damage at 2nd/3rd level is pretty rough. Second, rolling near maximum and having a save DC high enough that, lacking DEX save proficiency, resulted in 75% of the party failing the save. Lastly, a second "super zombie" to clean up...

As you gain experience as a DM to the edition you are playing, go ahead and fudge (openly to the players with your apologies... or behind the screen in secret; whichever you feel is right for your group).

Once you know what you're doing, let the dice fall where they may IMO.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The referee is not a storyteller.

Whilst I agree with rolling dice in front of the players and not fudging (because a good narrative needs genuine peril), this point is not true. Even in the most sandboxy game, you still have "Chief Notgar offers you a bag of 100 gold coins if you rid his village of monsters". That's storytelling. And, of course most players are storytelling too, when they bring their character's inevitably tragic backstory to the table.

D&D without storytelling looks like this: "Today you are fighting a CR 4 Drowned Assassin from GoS. Combat takes place on a 10 by 10 grid, and you begin at a range of 5 cells."

 

[Andvari]

I roll openly in combat, but usually not otherwise. Sometimes I fudge with regards to random encounters. For example, if they've gone a really long time in a relatively populated area and have been super lucky not to get random encounters, I may force one to occur. On the other hand, if they just had 2 random combat ncounters in a row and get a third, I will probably ignore that one, or force it to be a non-hostile encounter, as by then we are likely all suffering from a bit of encounter fatigue.

Another type of random encounter fudge I might do is if the party is being pursued or is pursuing something. If they then get a random encounter, I might have it be whoever that is instead of whatever the random encounter table proposes.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Whilst I agree with rolling dice in front of the players and not fudging (because a good narrative needs genuine peril), this point is not true. Even in the most sandboxy game, you still have "Chief Notgar offers you a bag of 100 gold coins if you rid his village of monsters". That's storytelling. And, of course most players are storytelling too, when they bring their character's inevitably tragic backstory to the table.

D&D without storytelling looks like this: "Today you are fighting a CR 4 Drowned Assassin from GoS. Combat takes place on a 10 by 10 grid, and you begin at a range of 5 cells."

Yeah, if people really wanted D&D without all that pesky storytelling, then miniatures games like Dungeon Command or board games like Wrath of Ashardalon and The Legend of Drizzt would have people still playing and talking about them.

But they don't. Because players know that D&D combat by itself is not actually worth playing that much.

 

[robus]

I roll openly in combat, but usually not otherwise. Sometimes I fudge with regards to random encounters. For example, if they've gone a really long time in a relatively populated area and have been super lucky not to get random encounters, I may force one to occur. On the other hand, if they just had 2 random combat ncounters in a row and get a third, I will probably ignore that one, or force it to be a non-hostile encounter, as by then we are likely all suffering from a bit of encounter fatigue.

Another type of random encounter fudge I might do is if the party is being pursued or is pursuing something. If they then get a random encounter, I might have it be whoever that is instead of whatever the random encounter table proposes.

That's called pacing and it's a good thing. There's an art to DMing and understanding things like pacing and managing the encounter challenge etc is key to becoming good at it. Though in the case of random encounters I would simply not bother roll, and just pick a suitable encounter that fit the pacing needs.

If the story is calling for a dramatic final showdown with the villain in their lair and the players just stomp through it barely breaking a sweat, it's going to be a disappointment (I'm looking at you Black Spider in LMoP!). We want drama at the right moments and as the DM controls all the knobs to create drama it's their prerogative to use them. But don't mess with the random number generator.

 

[iserith]

Whether or not the DM is assigned a role of "storyteller" is largely defined by the rules of the edition we're talking about. In D&D 3e and 4e, I believe it was mostly defined as writing adventures and controlling pacing. In D&D 5e, the DM is the "lead storyteller," suggesting they are first among peers (the players) who are engaged in the same task. I don't have the books available to look at 1e or 2e.

What "storyteller" means to an individual person is likely to vary a bit. I see it as simply helping put some color on the "story" that is produced simply by playing adventurers boldly confronting perils in a world of swords and sorcery. Others may see it as creating a more planned-out plot for the players to move along from start to finish.

 

[Andvari]

Though in the case of random encounters I would simply not bother roll, and just pick a suitable encounter that fit the pacing needs.

I'll roll even if I know the "result" in advance to preserve the illusion. The players will likely be on to me otherwise!

 

[Umbran]

In all seriousness, running online, which is most of my gaming, forces a DMs (and players) to take the dice as they fall.

I think this is inaccurate. My understanding is that most VTTs allow GMs to roll electronic dice privately.

If you want, there's nothing in online gaming that forces to even use electronic dice. In one of my favorite online games over the pandemic, the GM supported and assumed everyone would be rolling physical dice at home, and just telling him the results. It worked fine.