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RPG Writing and Design Needs a Paradigm Shift

The books have to serve multiple purposes and audiences, with different needs and desires. Each rulebook will be a compromise of design, and you may like some of them more than others.

There is no One True Way.
I would even extend this and say: even for me as a single person, an RPG books needs to serve different needs at different times.
When I read a rule book, setting book or adventure for the first time, I typically read it cover to cover. And to make that a pleasant - or at least decent - experience, the writing needs to be evocative enough that it creates a mental image of scenes or story fragments in my head.
But when I need the material later on when running or playing a game, it also needs to be easy enough to reference sections and parse the content in a small amount of time.
And different books make different compromises between these two things.
Now technology offers some new options here, e.g. PDF bookmarks can already be quite helpful, and VTT modules or online platforms like D&D Beyond (or it's less legal counterparts) make referencing content during play even easier. But not every game will have this and not everyone plays online, so as long as RPGs come in the form of books, the fundamental issue remains.

So as others in this thread, I do not agree that RPG books should be like manuals. At least not even they are not massively shorter - because when I look to board game instructions, which often have a much stronger focus on mechanics, even 20 pages already feel like a lot.
But at the same time, I feel the underlying sentiment that RPG texts can be much too verbose and read like badly written novels, and that this compromises the reading and playing experience, is valid. Someone else in this thread mentioned Chaosium's Runequest, and similarly I will say that my current reading experience with Call of Cthulhu makes me with presentation/layout and brevity had been much more of a concern.

I do feel, things have improved over time, though. Looking at a few things from my collection:
1. The Dolmenwood Monster Book does a pretty good job of presenting both a bit of inspiring fluff and relevant mechanics on less than half a page, leaving enough room for random tables to customize an encounter:
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2. As mentioned previously, Warhammer Fantasy 4e has nice write-ups of lore spells that are both evocative and have relevant mechanics. Similar things can be said about e.g. Symbaroum or Forbidden Lands.
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3. And again taking an example from OSR games: a compact presentation of adventure locations that still has key elements of the fictional world in it can be found in adventures like Halls of the Blood King.
1708808792514.png

4. Finally, to not only use OSR-related stuff: games from the PbtA lineage, such as Mythos World (screenshot from the German version) do a pretty good job of presenting both the necessary choices for character creation, but also archetype-related actions in just a few pages:
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So in general examples of how to do it better than splatter pages after pages with text are already there. They are maybe just not universally applied.
 

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The AD&D and 3E versions are needlessly wordy, and include stuff that covers corner cases which - if it is necessary at all - should be picked up in other general rules (such as, for instance, whether making a saving throw vs the spell means that items carried are free from damage.
I disagree with this, in that IMO the spell write-up should cover as many corner cases as it can that relate specifically to that spell.

For example, that Fireball (in the early editions) expands to fill the volume of a 40-foot sphere regardless of terrain constraints - and is unique in doing so - causes all kinds of corner-case situations that don't apply to any other spell and thus should be dealt with right there in the Fireball write-up.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I disagree with this, in that IMO the spell write-up should cover as many corner cases as it can that relate specifically to that spell.

For example, that Fireball (in the early editions) expands to fill the volume of a 40-foot sphere regardless of terrain constraints - and is unique in doing so - causes all kinds of corner-case situations that don't apply to any other spell and thus should be dealt with right there in the Fireball write-up.
It's something of a signature feature for fireball, and a reason why it wasn't just spammed like crazy in the old days.
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
3. And again taking an example from OSR games: a compact presentation of adventure locations that still has key elements of the fictional world in it can be found in adventures like Halls of the Blood King.
I really liked Halls of the Blood King, but there were a few times I had trouble finding information when I needed it. Running a room as it came up? Worked great. Needing to go back? Less so. In retrospect, I should have prepared supplement notes for the NPCs, so I could have keyed entries for them alone.

Even so, I also said 4e Fireball is as bland as it gets, so not sure how that were shifting goalposts even if it were about that.
Hmm. I don’t know. The descriptions from OD&D and B/X that @pemerton posted in post #157 seem at least as bland. AD&D is more like 5e, but that’s probably because 5e seems to have copied (some of) the flavor.

AD&D - Fireball.png


And this is the descriptions from PF1, PF2, and Goblin Slayer TRPG (because why not?). PF1 is the closest in spirit to the AD&D description. It includes many similar details as well as the information on melting certain metals as well as extra information on needing to aim successfully if you’re launching it into a narrow space. PF2 is a major change from PF1. Arguably it’s at least as bland as OD&D and B/X. Goblin Slayer TRPG is closer to the blander entries, though I still like its presentation more than (most of) the others due to the amount of space they spend on spell properties.

Pathfinder 1e​

PF1 - Fireball.png

Pathfinder 2e​

PF2 - Fireball.png

Goblin Slayer TRPG

Goblin Slayer TRPG - Fireball.png
 

mamba

Legend
Hmm. I don’t know. The descriptions from OD&D and B/X that @pemerton posted in post #157 seem at least as bland.
true, it is as flavorless. No reason to not do better, it’s not like we had no progress on that front for 40 years. As you wrote, AD&D already did better than 4e just a few years later ;)

AD&D is more like 5e, but that’s probably because 5e seems to have copied (some of) the flavor.
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
true, it is as flavorless. No reason to not do better, it’s not like we had no progress on that front for 40 years. As you wrote, AD&D already did better than 4e just a few years later ;)
I’m only using “blandness” as a point of reference. Personally, I more of a fan of the B/X version (and those similar to it). The more I try to think about the AD&D version, the less sense it makes to me.
 

pemerton

Legend
I disagree with this, in that IMO the spell write-up should cover as many corner cases as it can that relate specifically to that spell.
What ever happened to "rulings not rules"?

All that cruft in the AD&D and 3E versions is just Gygax's (or someone else's) rulings on the spell, written down for others to apply. Why not let those others make their own rulings?

The more I try to think about the AD&D version, the less sense it makes to me.
You mean the fact that it explodes outwards from a point yet generates no blast pressure, and it melts gold and the like while leaving
living victims merely singed? (The smallest fireball is 5d6, which is an average of 17.5 hp damage, which even on a failed save is unlikely to kill 5+ HD creatures like lions, tigers, brown bears and the like.)
 

mamba

Legend
I’m only using “blandness” as a point of reference. Personally, I more of a fan of the B/X version (and those similar to it). The more I try to think about the AD&D version, the less sense it makes to me.
the description for the spell itself is not so bad

"A fireball is an explosive burst of flame, which detonates with a low roar, and delivers damage proportionate to the level of the magic-user who cast it, i.e. 1 six-sided die (d6) for each level of experience of the spell caster."

It just has much too much going on (if cast from a staff then this, if from a scroll then that, and here's another 10 lines of details for some rare cases that might come up)

I like the 5e description best, I want it short but evocative. Doesn't mean it would not be improved by separating the mechanics from the flavor text and have them in a separate line. And while we are at it, I want theatre of the mind support the way 13th Age has it (not saying it has to be identical, just that it should have similar support for it)

"1d3 nearby enemies in a group. If you cast recklessly, you can target 1d3 additional enemies, but then your allies engaged with any of the targets may also take damage (see below)."

with 'below' being

"Hit: 10d10 fire damage. Miss: Half damage. Reckless miss: Your allies engaged with the target take one fourth damage"
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
You mean the fact that it explodes outwards from a point yet generates no blast pressure, and it melts gold and the like while leaving
living victims merely singed? (The smallest fireball is 5d6, which is an average of 17.5 hp damage, which even on a failed save is unlikely to kill 5+ HD creatures like lions, tigers, brown bears and the like.)
Yeah. The fireball described in AD&D is more like an instantaneously expanding, transient magical fire cloud. That’s not bad per se, but it doesn’t align with what I have in mind when I think of fireball. The B/X version is much closer.
 

mamba

Legend
You mean the fact that it explodes outwards from a point yet generates no blast pressure, and it melts gold and the like while leaving
living victims merely singed? (The smallest fireball is 5d6, which is an average of 17.5 hp damage, which even on a failed save is unlikely to kill 5+ HD creatures like lions, tigers, brown bears and the like.)
that makes as much sense as a piece of paper being held in the hand of the target being unaffected while it ignites a paper lying on a table next to the target ;)
 

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