Dragonbane Announces Two New Books

GMMichael said:

I don't know. "We're number 1" seems to be a popular refrain. So is "low price guarantee."

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Yeah, but 10/10 is better than 1/10.

Maggan said:

Spoiler: Find the weakness!

The chickens found in the adventyre are the key to defeating the basilisk!

But yeah, if you don't figure out the basilisk's weakness, then it's pretty much a TPK.

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Theoretically, there would be a couple rounds of combat and the PCs would realize they can't hurt it and they would flee. perhaps they would seek information on how to kill it. Maybe they would just move on to the next adventure. Either is equally valid 9although the latter feels like "losing to a lot of players).

BUT, in real life, i don't know how many times I have seen players just keep mashing the "attack" button without changing strategy or fleeing, leading inevitably to a TPK. Something tells them that if they just wish harder, they will prevail. I blame staurday morning cartoons and professional wrestling.

Matrix Sorcica said:

Thanks. Sounds like Dragonbane isn't for my group.

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Chiming in here that I’m currently running the Secrets of the Dragon Emperor campaign and the group has done most of the adventures in it, each with its own boss monster. PCs have gone down (the system uses Death Saves just like 5e, but against your Con, so odds of surviving are generally better) but only one actual character death (the player rolled a critical failure on her Death Save).

Definitely some tense combats because, yes, the threat of death is there, but no TPKs. Cautious and strategic play is key (though having PCs proficient in the Healing skill and one with actual healing magic helped.)

If PCs survive long enough to gain some Heroic Abilities (akin to Feats), there are some that can greatly improve their effectiveness in combat.

One thing I strongly encourage to remember is that the GM should root for the PCs, not play adversarially, even when playing the NPCs intelligently. (True of most games, IMHO.) Adventure scenarios often have factions that can be played off of each other. Give the characters a chance to interact with potential enemies and put their Bluff and Persuasion skills to use. One of the ways PCs can earn experience is by overcoming an obstacle without violence.

Monsters may have weaknesses. There are skills to figure these out (Beast Lore and Myths and Legends), but the GM can provide clues as well, which I think players like when they figure things out themselves instead of just making a roll.

Is the game potentially deadly? Yeah, but it is possible to have a fun long term campaign if the players and gm keep certain things in mind.

Reynard said:

Theoretically, there would be a couple rounds of combat and the PCs would realize they can't hurt it and they would flee. perhaps they would seek information on how to kill it. Maybe they would just move on to the next adventure. Either is equally valid 9although the latter feels like "losing to a lot of players).

BUT, in real life, i don't know how many times I have seen players just keep mashing the "attack" button without changing strategy or fleeing, leading inevitably to a TPK. Something tells them that if they just wish harder, they will prevail. I blame staurday morning cartoons and professional wrestling.

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Rest assured, we played tactically and sensibly before getting slaughtered by the basilisk.

But our “couple rounds of combat” ended up in total failures on our end, whopping successes on the big bad’s end, and everything incidental that could go wrong going wrong. The surviving two (outta six-seven) PCs fled, only to expire by running afoul of some prior monsters (regenerating skeletons, I think? But could be combining TPKs in my mind) that rallied.

I’d blame fickle dice gods more than anything.

sevenbastard said:

In one hand Free League does the best books. On the other hand it's a roll low system with ducks.....

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Don't threaten me with a good time!

Anyway, I have definitely been waiting for this Magic book, so this Kickstarter is a no-brainer for me.

Doctor Depravo said:

My group played multiple published scenarios (all from the KS), and they were brutal as brutal can be. Multiple TPKs.

The GM even confided—after deciding that, nope, Dragonbane irritated him too much to continue—that the “basilisk adventure” was essentially impossible. As published, defeating the monster involved, like, tap dancing under a full moon while gargling holy water and reciting filthy limericks backwards. (Even scraping off the hyperbole, we got slaughtered and couldn’t figure out what to do.)

I had a blast with the game, though!

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I've had two campaigns and only 1.75 deaths. One true death by combat rolls and the other two were player inspired (one sacrificed themselves to a demonic deal and the other wanted to switch PCs for a while.) OTH, I never ran that adventure either.

My players are looking for more magic as three of the four magic schools feel like they are actually two or more schools smooshed together to give each school enough variety of spells. For example, the Elementalism school is the classic four elements and offers 16 spells total. Guess how many spells each element gets and what they do. . I will save you some effort and tell you the highest ranked spell summons an elemental:

• General Magic: Magic Item making (which needs three spells to do) and Dispel
• Animism: Clerical/Druidic
• Mentalism: Monk/Pison
• Elementalism: Pyro/Cryo/Geo/Hydro-mancy

While I have no problem mixing/matching and reskinning to create new spell lists, lots of gamers want different mechanics to make things feel different. For my players, I'd have to rename and rewrite the spell descriptions get more buy in on my custom spell lists.

Reynard said:

I have never understood the aversion to roll low.

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It seems pretty ingrained by upper elementary kids.

Faolyn said:

It’s not quite the same math unless you make heavy use of bonuses and penalties for the roll-under system. Because in D&D, the GM can set the DC low, no matter how bad your skill level is.

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And in DB, the GM can bonus or penalty your skill level.

Very excited for this Kickstarter! Even though I run Shadowdark mostly, I am always on the lookout to get a game going of Forbidden Lands or Dragonbane.

GMMichael said:

I don't know. "We're number 1" seems to be a popular refrain. So is "low price guarantee."

I don't like Roll Under because it is just more complicated than "higher is better." Suppose you have a crummy attribute of 3. Jane NPC has an epic score of 18. Any success you might roll against Jane will look impressive because it's so low - but does she need to roll lower than you to beat you? Does your 2 result beat her 17? Yes, there are answers, but no, they're not as intuitive to me as "roll higher."

Glad to see more Dragonbane, and I'm really hoping for a duel between the Dragonbane duck and the Daggerheart frog.

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my kids (8yo, 12yo, and 13yo) would disagree. lethality is very much a given if you fail to prepare and rush blindly into combat. However even then with con based death saves, rallying, and the first aid skill we have had zero killed PCs through most of the misty vale.