D&D Debuts Playtest for Psion Class

Steampunkette said:

Once again: Make an argument as to what is the actual cause, rather than just trying to pick apart my arguments and posts.

I'm not interested in a debate or discussion where one person forms an argument to present a proposition and the other person spends their time trying to tear apart that argument without presenting an alternative position that they seek to support.

It's mind numbingly pointless. It doesn't further communication or discussion, it's just one person trying, relentlessly, to shut the other person down. And I'm tired of it.

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Maxperson said:

I don't know what 5.5e says about combat, but 5e had this to say.

"In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the DM might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack roll before you are seen."

The relevance there is that in combat most creatures are alert for signs of danger all around.

"Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component."

The relevance there is that chanting is not at all quiet, especially coupled with particular combinations of sound with specific pitch and resonance. You can't easily cast a spell with a verbal component quietly. The danger there is fairly obvious on a battlefield.

"Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures."

Intricate gestures and forceful gesticulations would be a fairly recognizable source of danger on a battlefield.

The least obvious would be material components.

In my experience, DMs at the very LEAST use perception to allow folks to be aware of spells being cast in combat situations, and very often unless the battle is super chaotic or the caster is taking pains(making rolls) to avoid detection, DMs don't even require that much. They just say, this guy over here is casting a spell.

So while the rules don't explicitly say how to find someone casting a spell in combat, there are a bunch of other rules that when looked at, heavily imply that you either just know or at least get a perception check.

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GarrettKP said:

You misunderstand my stance here. Yes, it’s obvious that spellcasters are casting spells in the game. That’s because of the components. Verbal, Somatic, and Material components reveal a caster as casting a spell. That’s spelled out in the rules. If you remove those, like with Subtle Spell meta magic, then you can’t perceive the casting, which is the point of features like that.

My point is that those components are vital to the game, because that’s how you see someone is casting a spell. Removing them completely, as some people have suggested doing in this thread, is bad for the game because it removes players and DMs ability to interact with spellcasters through things such as Counterspell or targeting enemies to break concentration. That’s my point.

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Maxperson said:

Right, which is why @Yaarel, myself and I think some others have all suggested some other way to perceive psionic casting. Whether that's mental waves, sparkling lights, or a sign over the head of the psion saying, "Counterspell if you wanna!" is just a matter of preference. It doesn't have to say it already, because it can say it in whatever book we see the psion in.

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Maxperson said:

Right, which is why @Yaarel, myself and I think some others have all suggested some other way to perceive psionic casting. Whether that's mental waves, sparkling lights, or a sign over the head of the psion saying, "Counterspell if you wanna!" is just a matter of preference. It doesn't have to say it already, because it can say it in whatever book we see the psion in.

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Maxperson said:

Okay.

I think that slavery, while not THE reason, was one of the reasons why. Not just an excuse for all the other stuff.

I think that the design work involved with the races and classes is more involved than they needed for other settings like Spelljammer, Dragonlance and Planescape. Combine that with the main focus and intense design efforts to create 5.5e and get those books out, and you have a situation where a setting like Dark Sun would have to be put on the back burner. The same goes for psions/psionics which got put on the back burner until 5.5e was done, and now they are back into designing that class.

I think that the rest of the minor issues with Dragonlance that you laid out added to the above, and that when you take all of that together, they just couldn't devote any time or effort to making the setting.

Now, though, they have the time and resources to devote to making the minor changes, and to working on the races, classes, and danger levels that would be needed to make Dark Sun.

Does that mean we will see it? No, but that they are working on the psion class again is good sign and could mean that they are.

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Yaarel said:

But no crystals necessary. I can focus my mind fine without special crystals.

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GarrettKP said:

You got a laugh out of me for the Counterspell sign

I think it would be just as easy saying Somatic components for a Psion can manifest as a hand to your temple, reaching out towards an object, or a glowing halo appearing around your head. A sidebar like this, similar to the explainer for the Artificer casting with tools, would be the best way to go about it.

They are still somatic components, they just look different for Psions than they do for Wizards or Warlocks.

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Steampunkette said:

In short: Marketability and ease of Design.

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Steampunkette said:

In Long:
1) Climate Change is a charged political issue rather than something even children understand is a continuous problem.

2) The aggregation of global power into the hands of a few magocratic elite who lie and manipulate the populace to try and force their compliance rings too true to the modern day.

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Steampunkette said:

3) Psionics. They've yet to make a decent psionics class. This is as close as they've gotten in over 10 years.

4) They painted themselves into a corner making the "Weave" a universal source of magic for designing a world where that makes no sense.

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Steampunkette said:

5) "Brutality". Dark Sun was originally a scaled up "More Difficult" version of D&D with higher stat values and bigger scarier monsters that kill you and make you grab a new character. And the current urge to balance everything in the blandest way possible makes that original design intent a non-option, stripping away more of the setting's identity.

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1. Theros introduced 1st level supernatural gifts / origin feats that were a simple power boost. These later became standarad, but at one time they were not. WotC may do something similar (give a power boost) to DS PCs, though I doubt it. Regardless Thero indicates WotC is not 100% against given settings some unique flavor / mechanics.
2. We know that the upcoming FR books will have setting specific takes on some monsters (drow at least). This could herald a more personalized look at settings moving forward. Perhaps DS will get a similar (maybe even more aggressive) treatment.

Steampunkette said:

6) A buncha classes aren't the current shiny happy version. Some are specifically not typically present at all, resulting in a desire to either alter the setting, or the classes.

7) Most of the massive kitchen sink of gonzo heritages don't exist on Athas, which might make it hard for some players who refuse to play anything other than the one heritage they like.

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Steampunkette said:

8) Cannibal Elves and Halflings instead of lofty fae creatures and chubby adorable cooks breaks the current narrative schema of trying to make everything homogeneous across as many settings as possible. The core races would need to be redesigned.

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Steampunkette said:

9) Mul. A half-breed which cannot produce offspring plays into some ugly historical stereotypes and racist ideologies.

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Steampunkette said:

10) Dark Sun is an untested property on the current primary market. The 4e market was mostly people who had played 3e hanging with the people who played 2e. 5e's market is way younger and doesn't have that experience, making it a shot in the dark on whether or not it'll actually be something people will like outside of nostalgia purchases for the older players. And without widespread adoption it's practically doomed.

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Steampunkette said:

11) Dark Sun is a drastically different setting to traditional fantasy. At least Ravenloft's Gothic Horror typically has a place -in- high fantasy settings. But apocalyptic fantasy is wholly different and less likely to be widely adopted. The sheer divergence of identity from -everything- that has sold well in the past decade may be too far a gulf for Hasbro's board of directors who are just trying to keep WotC and D&D in a place of profitability.

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