D&D (2024) It Is 2025 And Save Or Suck Spells Still Suck (the fun out of the game)

Reynard said:

I have never understood the idea of wanting to start a arms race with the players.

Click to expand...

UngainlyTitan said:

I agree if the DM is unhappy it is an issue but, I have also found that the DM has too much information (expecially in D&D ) to have a good perspective on how the players find the fights. It is my experience that players find fight more scary and tense than DM, even DMs that are players. The perspective of sitting behind the screen and knowing everyone's hit points changes things a lot.
I have had to opportunity to see a control caster use spells like Tasha's and the like and while it can be frustrating for the DM the players have found those fights to be very memorable. This has changed my perspective quite a lot.
I am not running a wargame, and if the players are happy and found that the fight was tense, it does not really matter that I saw it as a one sided cakewalk and I am not telling them that it was either.

Click to expand...

ECMO3 said:

I think it is fine. Knock him prone while grappling if you want advantage.

Click to expand...

Nightfly said:

This is exactly why the 2014 wording was good, and the 2024 wording ruined the spell. I agree it's unreasonable to order the sidekick to simply leave, but a very cleverly worded suggestion can do the same thing. For example: "Hike to the nearest villiage and tell them we're under attack!" That accomplishes basically the same thing as "Leave and don't return," right? But as a DM, I'd be forced to accept that. And I'd accept it with a big smile, because I love it when my players are creative.

Yes, that's still too powerful for a second-level spell, but at least in that case we're rewarding the ingenuity of the player. Giving an outrageously powerful benefit as an award for great play seems fine to me. Remove the requirement for great play, or honestly even good play, and now it's just unbalanced.

Click to expand...

Micah Sweet said:

It stops being creative when they do it every time, which there is very little reason not to do.

Click to expand...

Flights of Fancy said:

20% AD&D
15% DND 3E
15% DND 5E
15% Five Torches Deep
10% Shadowdark
10% Nimble
10% d20 Star Wars (Revised)
5% Miscellaneous like Ironsworn, Daggerheart, B/X, etc.

Roll it all up in a low-magic, gritty, medieval fantasy setting and we'd have our perfect game...

Click to expand...

Nightfly said:

This perfectly describes my upcoming ruleset, Oubliettes & Otyughs. I'll be self-publishing it in the next 2 to 40 years, so keep a lookout.

Click to expand...

Micah Sweet said:

I don't see why restraining someone doesn't make then easier to hit.

Click to expand...

Nightfly said:

I don't agree that being creative repeatedly is not being creative. And note that you can't simply use the same Suggestion verbatim against every enemy: If you're fighting a pack of Twig Blights, asking one to "Hike to the nearest village and tell them we're under attack!" doesn't work, or so I would very probably rule as DM. What's reasonable to a sentient servant is presumably not reasonable for a hostile elemental with 4 INT.

But even if you disagree with the above, it's still better to be a clever player once and keep pushing that button than for the Wizard to somehow have Banishment at level 3, which is what the new Suggestion practically is.

Click to expand...