D&D General D&D: Literally Don't Understand This

Necropolitan said:

The Book of Wondrous Inventions was a joke book.

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It's a reminder that D&D never took itself too seriously and that we shouldn't take it too seriously either.

So I know some people think it is cute or funny to insert modern things in fantasy games. Flintstones-style thing. And to me it makes taking the setting seriously harder. And ultimately it is not what I want from games like D&D, If I wanted to play and RPG in a modern setting, then there are plenty of other games for doing that, ones that do it seriously.

Not a Decepticon said:

If someone is using a meme template made by a well-known literal nazi, and we point it out, then getting defensive about it being pointed out, or getting defensive about it on someone else's behalf, it makes them look disingenuous. Simple "I didn't know, won't use it again" would suffice.

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The projection is strong.

The only thing disingenuous here is that you only care about the *original artist of the altered comic insomuch as you feel it gives you a rhetorical drum to beat to avoid addressing any point being made by someone you disagree with.

If it had been similarly altered to mock, for example, racists, or literal nazi's, not only would you then have no problem with it, you'd likely consider it a hilarious 2 for 1 deal. (Which it would be.)

Save your conditional indignation for someone that can't see through it.

It still won't change the fact that trying to sell a fantasy adventure game by trying to tie swiftie messaging with art from one of WotC's worst selling books is hilariously ridiculous.


*Absolutely hilarious that all the people that disagree with me instantly knew the origin of the subsequently altered comic before I did. Where do you people hang out online!?
Edit: Not a Deception has subsequently quoted and 'replied' to my post behind an ignore. Literally one of the most disingenuous and craven moves you can do.

Azzy said:

It's a reminder that D&D never took itself too seriously and that we shouldn't take it too seriously either.

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You're citing what was specifically written as a joke book, that doesn't prove D&D is supposed to be a wacky anachronistic magitek comedy.

Hats off to anyone that enjoys D&D and gaming. It’s a passion of mine and has been since childhood. Lots of room for lots of flavors. That said:

This picture is one of many from several books that seems odd as a D&D exemplar. Many examples going back to Tasha’s. The objection I have to the tone is not about one picture in one adventure. That is an absurdity.

Secondly, there can be many flavors of D&D in different campaigns and supplements. I don’t argue against Eberron any more than I do the barrier peaks. That said, the game needs some kind of baseline somehow some way. Eberron and the barrier peaks are novel and cool because it’s not D&D as usual.

“You just don’t like different cultures.” What? You don’t hear me complaining about ancient Asian or African warriors wizards or priests in the game. It’s not “only” about medieval Northern Europe! though that is part of the roots of the game and should not be excised. Too many cool myths and images.

The game is about, at its core, swords, axes spears and a struggle against things that scare us. Why? Tradition surely, but the game is about myth! Our myths don’t usually masquerade as as science fiction (oh wait Star Wars and when it does funny that light is in ‘saber’ form.

Perseus, King Arthur, Samurai, vikings…hell “cave people.” They fight with magic or weapons against ancient terrors embedded in our shared cross cultural history and archetypes.

If you get the same vibe from LtCol Smith landing his chopper and heading to a disco I don’t dislike you. It’s just not what I am looking for as an archetype or promotion for D&D.

And while tastes change and these crazy kids like some trippy stuff…(and D&D in stranger things is likely to resonate less with some of them less than those who grew up on D&D), even my kids are hip to swords and torches and the trappings of fantasy without prompting. Was it Elden ring or Lord of the Rings that prompted them? Yes.

I do NOT think the game suddenly lost all grounding. But the art direction is swerving away from a coherent baseline more than I would like. If you think otherwise I accept your freedom of choice but not the drift in tone for my game. It’s ok to say that, think that and own it without meaning more insidious things or wishing unhappiness on those who like smiling, bespectacled pigeon
toed colorful protagonists. I don’t prefer it personally and don’t want to buy books replete with that kind of imagery.

Others can and will and world will turn. But I think it’s less cool for it.

Necropolitan said:

You're citing what was specifically written as a joke book,

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And yet it was sold as a supplement to the game. Just like Top Ballista.

Necropolitan said:

that doesn't prove D&D is supposed to be a wacky anachronistic magitek comedy.

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Nice strawman there. No, it and Jeff Dee's bellbottoms, Erol Otus' cartoonery, drow in swimsuits, the modules based on Alice in Wonderland, and more shows that D&D has been wacky and anachronistic with elements of magitech (Machine of Lum, Aparratus of Kwalish, etc.) all along. It's already there.

Necropolitan said:

You're citing what was specifically written as a joke book, that doesn't prove D&D is supposed to be a wacky anachronistic magitek comedy.

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It's honestly hard to tell where the jokes leave off and the magitech begins with Mystara.





(They're not necessarily what I'd call good jokes, though.)

Azzy said:

And yet it was sold as a supplement to the game. Just like Top Ballista.

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And The Wandering Harlot table.

Was D&D always meant to be a NSFW game too?

Necropolitan said:

And The Wandering Harlot table.

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I was listening to a history podcast yesterday talk about the Satanic panic, and the hosts were chuckling at all the stuff that was allegedly in D&D, according to Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons, and I kept thinking, "no, there are rules for prostitutes and necromancy in it ..."

Crimson Longinus said:

Which makes it pretty modern.

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So you'd be looking for security cameras in Victorian London?

Crimson Longinus said:

Did they have dinosaur bones in glass cases?

It is not about the concept of a museum, it is about the modern presentation of it.

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First dinosaur skeleton was put on public display in 1868. Use of glass reaches ancient times.

Crimson Longinus said:

There should have been security cameras?

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Dm should not make that line, that line is an entire problem.

Necropolitan said:

The Book of Wondrous Inventions was a joke book.

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Let's not pretend there is any maturity in a game with one of most childish concept in fiction, that are inherently evil races - a thing that exists because some people are not mature enough to face implications that come with killing an enemy, even when projected not o nthem but on made up character they inhabit.

Crimson Longinus said:

And ultimately it is not what I want from games like D&D

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I have a solution

Jaeger said:

The projection is strong.

The only thing disingenuous here is that you only care about the *original artist of the altered comic insomuch as you feel it gives you a rhetorical drum to beat to avoid addressing any point being made by someone you disagree with.

If it had been similarly altered to mock, for example, racists, or literal nazi's, not only would you then have no problem with it, you'd likely consider it a hilarious 2 for 1 deal. (Which it would be.)

Save your conditional indignation for someone that can't see through it.

It still won't change the fact that trying to sell a fantasy adventure game by trying to tie swiftie messaging with art from one of WotC's worst selling books is hilariously ridiculous.


*Absolutely hilarious that all the people that disagree with me instantly knew the origin of the subsequently altered comic before I did. Where do you people hang out online!?

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"Sure I took a big dump on your table, but the fact you keep talking about it just proves you cannot dispute my point that food at this restaurant is turd! How do you know it's gross to feed people extrements anyway? Must mean you actually like eating it!" - this is how you sound like. I gave you fair chance to maybe stop and consider if your "point" actually benefits from and needs association with works of self-proclaimed nazi. Your continuous defensiveness tells me all I need to know.