D&D 5E (2024) Getting ready to use the Portable Hole + Bag of holding trick

We ended last Monday in the middle of a fight we were losing. We are 12th level chartacters (Barbarian, Wizard, Rogue/Wizard, Monk/Fighter, Cleric, Celestial Warlock/Fey Wanderer Ranger (me)),

We stumbled into a den of 3 Giant skeleton things, about 5 regular skeletons, 5 regular zombies and about 5 amped up Greater Zombie things. We were cutting through them with no problem when one of our PCs (a Dhamphir Monk that walks on the ceilings) entered another room and brought a Lich into the fight. Now they are kicking our butt (or more specifically the Lich is). Our Cleric is down, the Monk has already been killed once with Power Word kill and brought back with Revivify, so the Monk has one hit point, the Barbarian has about 10 hps, the Rogue/Wizard about 25 (which is like half his total). The Dwarf Wizard and me are the only ones relatively well off (Wizard untouched, me about 70 of 95). We still have a little less than half of the lessor undead in the fight.

We are split up over 3 rooms, which is good because the Lich keeps using Legandary actions that are AOEs. So far he has cast Fear 2 or 3 times (no one currently frightened), Power Word Kill, Finger of Death, Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt and he has teleported around doing necro and done some other large AOE that does necro.

Right now I am kind of alone about 25 feet from the Cleric and the Monk (I have a 50 move). The Cleric and Monk are next to each other in a 10 foot wide 20 foot long hallway and everyone else, including the Lich is spread out in a 30x30 room on the other side of the hallway from me.

I think I am going to run up and heal the Cleric with a 2nd level Cure Wounds and, give the Monk a potion of Greater Healing and then retreat into a third room and shut the door. At that point I am kind of torn - run in to help my friends or close the door and put the portable hole on the wall next to the door and wait for the lich to come to me. When he opens the door throw my bag of holding into the portable hole from 20 feet away, problem solved. If I rush in to fight him we are bunched up and we will probably TPK, even with the healing I give to the Monk and Cleric. If I do the latter I think it is an easy "win" but a lot (maybe all) of the rest of the party will be rolling death saves.

The only other thing to mention is there is a ton of party loot in the portable hole a that will be lost (some of my personal loot is in the bag of holding too, but I am not worried about that).


Thoughts?

Gutsy move. As a lifelong DM, I hate for bad luck to ruin a campaign (sounds like you were running into this Lich anyways), so if a player has a grandiose, epic plan like yours, I tend to go with what's cool. Now, here's the flipside:

The lich is genius. It's probably going after what can hurt it the most (presumably not the guy running away). It may not chase you. If it does, it may not open any doors itself. It might use magic or send a minion from a safe distance or teleport in (presuming it probably knows the base intimately). Finally, metagaming a little, liches are archmagi, capable of casting 9th level spells. It stands to reason this one might also have the ability to travel the planes. Whether it has that prepared is only known to your DM. You might buy yourself only a moment respite.

It might be a little crazier, but if you think everyone's going to die, is there a way to gather your broken party and blast yourselves to the Astral Plane? The lich won't be able to follow (because it's random where you go and he won't be able to know), though you'll be effectively lost on an infinite plane. Still, beats certain death, right?

May your death be glorious.

Saw this on a blog page, but did not confirm if it is actual 5e.

touc said:

Gutsy move. As a lifelong DM, I hate for bad luck to ruin a campaign (sounds like you were running into this Lich anyways), so if a player has a grandiose, epic plan like yours, I tend to go with what's cool. Now, here's the flipside:

The lich is genius. It's probably going after what can hurt it the most (presumably not the guy running away). It may not chase you. If it does, it may not open any doors itself. It might use magic or send a minion from a safe distance or teleport in (presuming it probably knows the base intimately). Finally, metagaming a little, liches are archmagi, capable of casting 9th level spells. It stands to reason this one might also have the ability to travel the planes. Whether it has that prepared is only known to your DM. You might buy yourself only a moment respite.

It might be a little crazier, but if you think everyone's going to die, is there a way to gather your broken party and blast yourselves to the Astral Plane? The lich won't be able to follow (because it's random where you go and he won't be able to know), though you'll be effectively lost on an infinite plane. Still, beats certain death, right?

Click to expand...

All true. But action economy works to my favor. He will almost certainly down my companions, his minions won't likely survive that though (at least not the ones he currently has).

He does have 9th level spells but he already cast Power Word Kill and Finger of Death, so my guess is he does not have lots of those left. He could teleport in but I am guessing that is an action, not a Legandary and if he teleports on the side of me with the hole I can still do my trick (if he teleports on the other side of me I am screwed).

I don't think I can pull off getting my whole party to the Astral, both because it is 2 actions and that kind of metagaming to facilitate it in play is not allowed. I could tell them to "gather round I am going to try to get us out of here", but with the table rules we can't have a conversation in combat. Basically everything you say must be on your turn and must take less than 6 seconds. No conversations debating strategy and placement etc.

My DM would probably walk right into it if he knew it was happening (rule of cool kind of like you said), but I am going to throw the hole on the wall and simultaneously ask if I can get something out of it with the same action (since this is not clear in the rules) ... and if I can I am pulling out our Wand of Fireballs or the Gauntlets of Ogre Power so they are not lost to the Astral. Whether the answer is yes or no, I think the DM is going to assume I am putting it on the wall to get out something to use in the combat. My ready action the following turn will be to make an attack when someone opens the door ..... and use that attack to throw the bag into the hole if it is the lich. So there is better than a 50-50 chance the DM won't realize what I am up to until I do it.

How does your character know about the portable hole trick?

Is regular retreat back the way you came in an option? You have super movement that should be enough to get you and potentially a body/unconscious companion a long way off if you dash? If the barbarian can also get away with decent movement and carry another downed player away then it’s just the wizard who can hopefully use their usual shenanigans to get out.

I think you’re right, even if the lich has used their big guns, there are a lot of foes there. Being down two party members and almost a third would be an unacceptably dangerous place for me.

Clint_L said:

How does your character know about the portable hole trick?

Click to expand...

Its a well known truth passed down among the people ever since Bartleby the Black accidently was the first to think he could get around the laws of the gods. Too much Intelligence and not enough Wisdom. Parents warn their children if they are doing something to "Don't be like Bartleby". Even fighters are taught this in their Tactics and Training classes. Right after the Trolls and Fire bit, but before Halflings equal Thieves.

Clint_L said:

How does your character know about the portable hole trick?

Click to expand...

I think this is a very good question. Even if there are tales passed down about Bartleby the Black, adventurer extraordinaire, seems very unlikely that the details would be exact. Bards tend to embellish tales. Does your character think the AOE is 10' radius or 100' radius? Is there a blast of energy that resembles a fireball as the portal to the mystery location opens and closes? A portal to which plane? While a wizard can cast 100 fireballs and observe the result and then have a high confidence that the spell will behave as expected, how many tests have been done with real Bags of Holding being tossed into Portable Holes? Rather expensive items to use to perform a similar 100 tests. Or was that a Portable Hole being shoved into a Bag of Holding? Details might be important. Do the contents of the two storage spaces matter? Possible some the items might react poorly to being subjected to such an event.
Even if the plan works as expected, what about the structural integrity of the stronghold? There is now a spherical void where there used to be floors and walls. What, you expected that only the Lich would vanish? And now, the Ancient Dragon that was peacefully sleeping one level down is awake and very irritated that her lair now has a large hole in the roof. And she is fully locked onto YOU! Roll a new initiative!

Koloth said:

I think this is a very good question. Even if there are tales passed down about Bartleby the Black, adventurer extraordinaire, seems very unlikely that the details would be exact. Bards tend to embellish tales. Does your character think the AOE is 10' radius or 100' radius? Is there a blast of energy that resembles a fireball as the portal to the mystery location opens and closes? A portal to which plane? While a wizard can cast 100 fireballs and observe the result and then have a high confidence that the spell will behave as expected, how many tests have been done with real Bags of Holding being tossed into Portable Holes? Rather expensive items to use to perform a similar 100 tests. Or was that a Portable Hole being shoved into a Bag of Holding? Details might be important. Do the contents of the two storage spaces matter? Possible some the items might react poorly to being subjected to such an event.
Even if the plan works as expected, what about the structural integrity of the stronghold? There is now a spherical void where there used to be floors and walls. What, you expected that only the Lich would vanish? And now, the Ancient Dragon that was peacefully sleeping one level down is awake and very irritated that her lair now has a large hole in the roof. And she is fully locked onto YOU! Roll a new initiative!

Click to expand...

All that depends on if you think his DM will be annoyed that a portable hole/bag of holding combo is used. I think it’s far more likely that he will be impressed.

If death by lich is the likely alernative then certainty isn’t really very relevant. Only-a-fool’s
-chance is better than no chance!

Though I still think gather the bodies and run is a more practical solution.

TheSword said:

All that depends on if you think his DM will be annoyed that a portable hole/bag of holding combo is used. I think it’s far more likely that he will be impressed.

If death by lich is the likely alernative then certainty isn’t really very relevant. Only-a-fool’s
-chance is better than no chance!

They I still think gather the bodies and run is a more practical solution.

Click to expand...

I specifically vetoed it. The players in my newbie campaign had a week before the final battle of the campaign and two of them who had a bit more experience used it to game out the scenario and came up with the plan, knowing that the encounter involved a transdimensional portal. This was a level 1-5 campaign.

In terms of story, and fun for the other six players, this was lame. And there was no plausible way their characters, sans Google and meta knowledge, would know to make a headlong dash for the portal and chuck their bag of holding, pre-emptied of valuables, into it. So I just said no, for those reasons, and they laughed and agreed.

However, the scenario described above has a difference in that at least there are more stakes in terms of the bag not being pre-emptied. And for all I know this tactic is common in that world. Still, with a lot of time off and even Internet forums to query on a tactic to try on your next six second round, it does raise some serious meta-gaming questions. Which some groups don’t care about and that’s fine too.

Edit: found a photograph of the set-up for that battle - you can see the portal in the upper left (the players had to get past the zombie beholder and zombie ogres to stop the necromancer):