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Time will tell has been my position throughout. The claim is that it would be a telling point. And, yet again, all we have is reasons to possibly ignore a declining trend over time and a drop right at the time a rebound was forecast. It certainly isn't good news.

The APG is out, and PF2E is much lower than it was when this prediction was made.

HA! How does "And my request for you to FIRST explain how you understand my personal dissatisfaction with PF2E and will mitigate my concerns also still stands. If you can do that, then I'm there. " get hand-waved away as "blah blah blah". You clearly can't even wrap your brain around the...

Huh? I said I know exactly what about PF2E I dislike. How can that POSSIBLY indicate I haven't played it. It is TRUE that I have not played it "a lot". But you seem to be just saying what you wish was true here and ignoring what is actually said. For the record, I'm disappointed that Paizo...

That is true. I also like 5E and GURPs. But I'm almost exclusively playing PF these days. I'm keeping an eye on new games as they come out, because I am interested in something new.

Sorry for the long absence. But, to give a quick reply: It is hilarious that you think you know what I know and what I like better than I do. I know quite well and quite specifically why PF2E fails to deliver the kind of gaming experience that I want. If you go digging in the Pathfinder forum...

Have you made any effort to understand what I want out of an RPG? Have you made any effort to recognize what I do and don't like about PF2E? I know very well how it works. I've been gaming for decades and your simplistic assumption that I need to waste waste hours and hours doing something I...

I don't think this is an unavoidable truth. There are STILL a Lot of people PLAYING 1E. And bringing them over with a new game that stuck to the same appeal would have been easy. Yes, there is ALWAYS complaint about a new edition and THAT would have happened. But as numerous games (including...

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Nevermind

bummer Again, there are a lot of real complaints about PF2E. Go digging through this forum and find me three quotes of people saying that is their problem with the game. Please address the actual complaints. Or, as I said before just don't. But this repeated strawman argument is pointless...

Ah, yes. Apple pie = good. We love mom. You seem to be implying that PF2E is the one and only game which finally brought this to your personal table. If you are not saying that, then I don't see much point to your proclamations of otherwise obvious statements. Please clarify. If you are...

That is the kind of thing you have to watch out for. Big solid game experience presumptions which may appeal to 30% of the audience, make no difference to 60% and drive away 10%. No game can afford to drive away 10% of the audience with one mandate. Because you are only going to get some...

I think you have contradicted yourself in this one sentence. If you concede that the difference is more in PF or 5E, then it is hard to declare that someone else is underselling the choices. By some measure they are "under" what other currently enjoy and prefer. I don't think anyone is...

I 100% respect this. But, you must admit that you are describing a player problem that you are using rules shackling to manage. If one doesn't have this player problem, then not adding a shackle is, well, not adding a shackle. I have several other issues with the PF2E math that create...

I think qualifies as creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. There are a lot of great games out there. If you are not enjoying one game, it is trivial to move on to another. Demanding that someone invest that much time (ten levels, much less 20) before their opinion becomes valid is completely...

Is this part true? I think I very much agree with the first part. But, as I see it, "the market" is growing toward "don't worry about it, its just a casual past-time". Which is completely cool. I'm not knocking it in the least. But I think that even within the relatively niche population of...

No no no :) I was not at all saying you were. I was PURELY stressing that I also was not making that claim.

Heh, at the risk of cross referencing threads.... I think the "like 4E" thing is a big factor here. Now, I'll repeat my position that PF2E is UNLIKE 4E in a lot more ways than it is LIKE 4E. In my opinion, it is a weak analysis to say that PF2E is like 4E. BUT... I strongly believe that the...

I think the pro-2E comments are completely valid at face value. But the flaw is that they look at the game in a vacuum. If there were no other TTRPGs in the world and I had PF2E, I expect I'd be thrilled. But there are other games. And PF2E is held to the standard of doing a BETTER job of...