Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

[Mistwell]

Found out today that Amazon has an Amazon’s Choice entry for the players handbook and starter set, from a third party reseller that includes dice and other things. Looks like it’s been swiping top spot results in searches for D&D and Players Handbook. I wonder if they did the same for PF2? Anybody see it?

Yes I think that was mentioned in the PHB tracking thread. Made it difficult to track the actual sales since you need to combine both products to get a true read.

 

[darjr]

Wasn’t that google searches? I mean Amazon searches. But wouldn’t be the first time I was last on the train.

 

[Porridge]

They haven't done layoffs, no. But in 2016 through 2018 they shed a lot of staff that all chose to leave, both publicly and quietly, and often in small batches. And many were not replaced, as the teams shrank.

Even at the time I commented that Paizo was encouraging people to move on amicably. Because Paizo was huge and had a LOT of staff.

I remember wondering the same thing, since it seemed like for a while there was a new high-profile "farewell" blog post every couple months. But there were also several big "new additions" blog posts too, so I wasn't sure how everything shook out, numbers-wise.

Here's my best attempt to figure out how things stand. On 12/31/2019, in a thread where people were raising these kinds of worries, Lisa Stevens dropped in and said: "Paizo isn't smaller, it is larger than it has ever been. And we are growing even more in the coming months."

So, assuming she isn't lying, Paizo at the end of last year was as large as it has ever been. Since then, there have been two blog posts listing new hires and promotions:

Paizo People, Additions and Promotions (2/6/2020)

Paizo People, Spring 2020 (4/10/2020)

Most of these are promotions or title changes, but 9 of them seem to be new hires. And I didn't see any "farewell" blog posts since Lisa's 12/31/2019 post.

Putting that together, that would seem to indicate that Paizo has grown, numbers-wise, and so remains larger than it's ever been.

(This assumes, of course, that there haven't been "invisible" departures between 12/31/2019 and 4/10/2020 that weren't accompanied by "farewell" blog posts. But I have no way of checking that.)

A brief follow-up on this. A historian has recently started working on a comprehensive history of Paizo. There are lots of interesting little nuggets to be found in the stuff they've been posting (Paizo LLC was almost dissolved by the State of Washington after some key paperwork was lost in the CFO shuffle?!). But more on point, they've compiled a complete list of who's worked and Paizo and when they worked there. They even have a nice graph of the number of Paizo staff over time.

Anyway, Paizo currently employs 73 people, which is, indeed, larger than it's ever been.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

A brief follow-up on this. A historian has recently started working on a comprehensive history of Paizo. There are lots of interesting little nuggets to be found in the stuff they've been posting (Paizo LLC was almost dissolved by the State of Washington after some key paperwork was lost in the CFO shuffle?!). But more on point, they've compiled a complete list of who's worked and Paizo and when they worked there. They even have a nice graph of the number of Paizo staff over time.

Anyway, Paizo currently employs 73 people, which is, indeed, larger than it's ever been.

That is concerning, not a good time to have your largest staff ever. I hope they have a plan.

 

[dave2008]

That is concerning, not a good time to have your largest staff ever. I hope they have a plan.

Traditionally they have been a well run company, I imagine they will be fine.

 

[BryonD]

I do feel like the APG release is going to be the next real telling point for 2e. That was really the turning point for PF1 and it could really be the same for PF2. Not that it will catch 5e that isn't happening, but where it establishes itself.

The APG is out, and PF2E is much lower than it was when this prediction was made.

 

[Puggins]

The APG is out, and PF2E is much lower than it was when this prediction was made.

I dunno, that humble bundle deal was a huge success, apparently, making the core rule book hard to get. Wouldn’t be surprised if that had an immediate effect of dropping amazon sales a bunch, since everyone who wanted one got it at a bigger discount than Amazon could provide. There’s a good chance that it isn’t the case, though.

In other words, I don’t consider that convincing evidence given recent events, but we can check in again in a few months.

 

[BryonD]

I dunno, that humble bundle deal was a huge success, apparently, making the core rule book hard to get. Wouldn’t be surprised if that had an immediate effect of dropping amazon sales a bunch, since everyone who wanted one got it at a bigger discount than Amazon could provide. There’s a good chance that it isn’t the case, though.

In other words, I don’t consider that convincing evidence given recent events, but we can check in again in a few months.

Time will tell has been my position throughout.
The claim is that it would be a telling point. And, yet again, all we have is reasons to possibly ignore a declining trend over time and a drop right at the time a rebound was forecast. It certainly isn't good news.

 

[Parmandur]

I dunno, that humble bundle deal was a huge success, apparently, making the core rule book hard to get. Wouldn’t be surprised if that had an immediate effect of dropping amazon sales a bunch, since everyone who wanted one got it at a bigger discount than Amazon could provide. There’s a good chance that it isn’t the case, though.

In other words, I don’t consider that convincing evidence given recent events, but we can check in again in a few months.

"The fire sale got everything out the door!" doesn't seem all that promising.

 

[Nilbog]

I find it very sad that pf2 is, by all accounts struggling. In a way it's understandable, as a lot of hardened pf1 gamers were never going to jump onboard, and even if they'd simplified the ruleset I don't think they could compete with the behemoth that is 5e

It's (IMHO) a very good ruleset, that while it has its faults, is very very serviceable and a nice alternative to what's out there, and even if I wasn't interested healthy competition would be good for the industry