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And these are tactical movement rules why?

Did chases, yep. Did light sources, yep. But the minis were there to establish marching order, and who had what opponents. Why? Because movement rates were so high (1 inch did NOT mean one inch on a battle mat. It was 10 feet indoors and 10 YARDS outdoors, or don't you remember that?). So, if...

Nobody charged. Nobody used spears. But if they did, it would have been fairly abstract, because we wouldn't have counted squares to see if they were able to charge. The distances covered by movement gave no tatical value.

That, withdrawing from combat (free attack), ranges, etc. is not a tactical movement system. Nothing in the rules supported or encouraged knowing exactly what square you were in, or gave you a reason to move in a particular way. Considering you could move such a great distance in a 1 minute...

And, if you will bother reading the post, I was speaking of First Edition AD&D, not OD&D. If you are going to dispute someone's point, it behooves you to actually know the point in the first place.

No, I want you to use them to prove there was tactical movement rules. If you succeed, I will buy used copies and sing your praises. My wallet is pretty safe.

You've used this argument before, and it still pegs the :):):):):):):):) meter. There was a rule about withdrawing from combat. That's it.

And?

No, they were to see how big the dungeon was. 10' wide hallways and all. You can argue about "combat movment" rules in 1e all you want, but nowhere did the rules even point out about moving in combat. I seriously doubt that myself and those dozens of people I played 1e with simply ignored any...

Heresy! ;) That would require trust, and I never invite people who I trust to play a game in my house. :uhoh: Unfortunately, that is the crux of this whole argument. Some people are comfortable with it, and some are not. Problem is, we seem to have been conditioned to think that if...

Yes, you could walk x amount of inches (at 10' per inch) per round. That came out to almost all the way across any battle mat of reasonable size. And what did moving do for you? Where was the rules for using movement in combat? Could you split your movment and move attack move? There were...

Never used minis in 1e. Why? There was no tactical movement rate. None, nada.

Yep. And when heads comes up, the GM will say, "You easily make it over the pit, doing a flip at the end. The Orcs hold up score cards. You average a 9.7." And if tails comes up, "You make it over the pit, and stand there looking proud, having made it look easy. But the edge crumbles away, and...

Wow. :uhoh:

This is a true statement about a lot of systems, a lot of the time. ;)

(And, in the end) Main Entry: opin·ion Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari 1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM 2 a : belief stronger than impression and less...

The whole idea is so subjective, any measurement you could make would be next to meaningless. So to answer the original question: No. ;)

"I feel that all the focus on miniatures and battlemats takes away from the role-playing aspects of the game (which I like) and puts too much emphasis on tactics, which makes it seem too much like a wargame." While I am FAR from being the least inflammatory in my word choice, it does affect the...

Hmm. I agree with most of what you say, but "regresses" just casts a negative light on an aspect of gaming a lot of people enjoy. Not too many brownie points for that one.

Dragonomicon has to be one of the single best RPG books I have ever bought. :cool: