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Tell me if I'm off base here. But, didn't a lot of the powers have [W] in their stats for attack. And [W] just means weapon. Not sword, not bow, just weapon. So say you blow a feat to get training in a ranged weapon and your a Paladin. :D

Ah. That would explain the differences between 4E and SWSE. The Power choice encompasses the idea of Talents and the bits of Feats that really, really should have been in the hands of Class powers.

As I dig up my memories of 4E from earlier previews I remember mention of Talents. Did the Talent picks of old get gobbled up in the Power selections of the now? Or am I missing something?

It's all about the hard sale. In this case, it can be an easier one if you spend some prep time working over their concerns. It sounds like they had attitude A and you needed to get them to B before the game started. They were on the fence...and...The lack of skill system and advanced combat...

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...

Naw. That's a cool feature. Anything that gives you more options, even the ecchi ones.

Your talking about the Beetle vs the New Beetle. They're not the same care. Both are cool for different reasons. I like to have air conditioning thank you.

Ah....I was going to post something meaningful in this thread and then you just killed my mind there.

I'm all for 4E and I'm going to stick with 4E. If they publish something I like, maybe. I wasn't buying their stuff before and I don't look to start now.

I can live with it. I'm more worried about mechanics at this point.

I see the more bang for your buck. A character with Toughness will recover from fights faster. That works nicely into any Defender archetype.

I'm so far sold that they'd have to dig up my dead ancestors and do violent unnatural things to their corpses to really unsell me at this point.

So we're arguing about bias in a biased poll about bias. Whoa, way to meta for me.

Return to Dark Sun. (If only in my fondest dreams.)

Basically D&D 4th has become a Japanese style SRPG. It's got such a tactical edge to it I'm in love.

Wow, you must have been at the printers already. You the man Scott. Long live the Dungeon Master!

I'm happy with this mechanic. My 'math' happiness continues.

Okay. Maybe it's not so much as math = bad. Is that a lot of the math is flatned out. Bonuses stack based on a defined BAB and save. Your choices alter that and you don't have to worry about synergy (Thanks, that's the core of my issues.) bonuses tripping over item bonuses. Etc, etc.

Default BAB only modified by the choices of class, weapon, and attack specialties. Target number saves. It solves so many issues I had with d20. It's why Mutants and Masterminds drives me crazy. Why am I spending points on BAB or Saves? Just give me a baseline 10 and let me pick powers. I...

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