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Err.. okay. Thanks for presenting the rest of your argument. I agree that GM's shouldn't railroad. That's all I can get out of what you're saying. If you'd said that a week ago when the thread started, I think we would have all nodded, gone "Yeah, of course", and gone on our way, because there...

As far as general tone and feel goes, I'd have to say Snatch.

Sorry, I'm not trying to monopolize the thread with my crazy moon language gaming style, or anything. :) I do a lot of gaming where the GM provides most of the creative input and the players restrict themselves to protraying the characters; I just haven't been doing much of that recently. I'm...

So is that part of your point, that thinking of play as a story can lead to railroading? I think we addressed that in this thread a few days ago. If the "story aspects" you borrow for RPGing include "one author, fixed outcome", then yes, you get railroading. If you borrow other "story aspects"...

Nah, see, that was one of the assumptions, that whenever gamers get together they're going to argue about the rules. The idea was that rules-heavy games arbitrated those arguments better. (Yes, that was brought up as part of the study.) I feel pretty lucky to have a group that doesn't argue...

Okay, we'll talk about how storytelling or story-creation techniques can add or detract from a particular style of play. (Actually, that's more moved to another thread that someone else started.) I think the issue some people are bringing up is that if you want play that has aspects of story...

Why are you still bothering with the game? You want to play by the rules, they aren't. Besides, it's not like if you hung around you'd get to do anything, what with a 14 HD guy on the front lines.

We're not going round and round; we're having a discussion, and you pop in once every 24 hours and repeat your initial assertions in a manner that's not relevant to that discussion. We've granted you that if you define story as something different from what happens in RPGs, then story is...

Me too. Well, I've come clean with the group and these days I tell them the Premise before we start play, but I ran a campaign last year that asked "What lines will you cross to get what you want?" and while I didn't tell anybody what I was doing, I found it helped me shape the campaign to be...

Oh, I should have mentioned in the post Afrodyte quoted that I've stolen that method out of the excellent book Sorcerer & Sword, from Adept Press. Strictly speaking it's a supplement for Sorcerer, which is one of those icky "indie" games, but the setting creation advice is gold for anybody going...

Chalk me up for the Robert E. Howard school of "world-building". I don't have the patience or interest to create a fully detailed world before we get started. I prefer to create/discover it with the group as we play. If the players want to be from a particular type of culture, I point to a big...

Hey, fun is where you make it. I figure you haven't been trolled if you've been goaded into responding but enjoyed doing so. :) I'm going to stay away from Narrativism in general in this thread, because you're right, the name doesn't match the meaning. It's more about making a particular kind...

I really enjoyed Siege of Durgam's Folly. I never ran it as is, but I did adapt it into a long-running campaign I used to GM in Neverwinter Nights. The party eventually took over the keep and used it to house a village displaced by war, so we got a lot of mileage out of the maps. My advice is...

I promise not to get caught up in point-by-point debating, but Oh Man. Counterpoint: "Any player who tells you his character took over the story is selling you something. They took nothing over, he decided to change it." Characters aren't real. The people at the table are the ones making the...

Okay, morning crew. Boil down the semantics, this is what I get. He did tell us that he's not talking about how people play, but about definitions. Let's remember that mythusmage is using the above definitions in his replies. So, everybody else in the thread: I don't think any of us are using...

I'm not parsing this at all. Wanting to fulfill your desires is strictly a capitalist thing? Popular culture doesn't deal with fulfillment of desires? I'm thinking "love story". That's something you could see equally easily in pop culture or in a premodern setting. :) I could see how a game...

I know that there's lots of people responding to lots of other people here, so I'll restate where I'm coming from. 'Cause I don't disagree with you. I grant that the majority of gamers like D&D, because it's what they buy. I even grant, after thinking about it, that if you play a rules-light...

I pretty much use the "how to create a campaign" advice from the Sorcerer supplements. So if you want to classify me, I guess I'm a dirty Narrativist. :) I come up with an idea for a campaign I think is cool, figure out what kinds of themes it deals with, then run it by the players. We talk...

Movies, and people frequently call out for various camera angles and such. We also cast all the PCs and most of the NPCs. Sometimes if it's helpful, we'll narrow it down to the look from specific performances -- like one NPC who the players knew was losing it when he went from John Cusack in...

Snipped slightly to focus on the part I wanted to respond to. There's a thing we're all referring to, where GM, players, and rules interact to determine an outcome. You call that "a living, virtual world", someone else called it "story-creation". Some people are using the word storytelling to...