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You provided some examples how to get some use out of something others deemed as useless. Nice. And the bolded sentence is at the heart of that problem. I think there are still many players who don't really know what they can expect from a class or how to make it work efficient. That is...

I'm for sure not the smartest player when it comes to building chars. Therefore, I stumble sometimes upon a build and think to myself, man I could never come up with such a thing. Sometimes I read about a class' powers and features and think it looks kinda weak. Then I turn to the Wotc boards...

Probably a better layout or form of presentation in the last post. You are right here. I agree. I did not say that they were the same, I said that they were nearly the same. But never the less, most players will be happy to be unseen, even so the enemy knows which square they occupy...

I'm well aware of those times and I remember some of those threads. The point is not that people start a thread and complain, it is that they do so w/o first trying to improve the weak looking part (within the rules) by getting help. I have no problem with people who suck at building a good...

Take a look at the current threads at the rules board: The starlock is to weak... The PAL is too weak... The Archer Ranger is too weak... The WIZ ist too weak... There seem to be serious cases of classes being to weak. (That's sarcasm!)

One thing I simply can't understand are those threads where some players claim that class x or y is so weak that there must be an error in their design. And if they post their build people start pointing out how they could improve their build. Why can't they first ask for help before they start...

I say no. Check with AV notes on weapon properties. Emphasis mine. Even if there are properties that work while only holding the weapon/implement and attacking with another, you cannot deduct from that that it is a general rule. And this alone is enough to answer your question with no.

Thank you, for backing up your point with rules. Ok, there must be something like unseen ruleswise. But it is no definded term. OTOH, invis is one. And invis is probably what they should have written. This is what is written in the stealth update: The FAQ doesn't add anything to that, it...

And do you have a problem with that update or is your question 1 (Q1) solved? If not I suggest you post in the house rules board because the rules board is done with Q1.

I think you didn't get it. I'm sure you mean SS not FG. And even if you said SS instead of FG it is not the same that I was saying. I said, you remain hidden with all benefits (i.e. being invis and silent) until the end of the action (compare to SR1). But I didn't say that you can roll a...

I disagree with you Abdul. Two of the benefits of being hidden is being invis and silent. If I loose the benefits of being hidden at the end of the action that ends my state of being hidden, how can I be visible and noisy (if I don't shout or the like) before the end of that action. I'm...

No it is not knock prone but you gain CA against a target of a crit until the end of your next turn. And Surprise Knockdown is more about CA than about the enemy being prone at least for the rogue. If your enemy acts after your trun he won't be probably prone when your next turn comes up, so...

1) 2) You can apply concealment penalties if you like but why do you want to weaken all martial powers that are close or area attacks because by your logic they should all have that penalty? I wouldn't do it. And by RAW there is no penalty as well.

I say it depends on your other feat choices and on your power choices. If you have many close and area attacks the chances of a crit rise and so does the usefulness of DevCrit and RWM. Surprise Knockdown is a bad choice for daggermasters because their lvl 16 PP feature is nearly as good/better...

One of the benefits of being hidden is being invis. But that is in fact not even relevant. SR1 states that you retain the benefits of being hidden, and one of those benefits is being hidden by itself. FG I2 assumes that FG trumps many GR and even trumps the last sentence of SR1. I assume that...

I think you are wrong MyISPHatesENWorld, there is no being unseen when you use stealth, there is only being hidden. But read on. From the stealth update: I labeled them general rule 1-4 (GR1-4) Here is a specific rule (I assume that SR1 trumps GR1-4): On the one hand we have Fleeting Ghost...

On another thread on stealth I stated a thesis, and let's think about it once more. The last sentence (bolded) is the important one. Others said that until the end of an action which brakes stealth you are hidden. If I used my move action to move from superior cover to superior cover with...

I assume you have not seen the numbers for a tempest fighter or just most dual wielding fighters with Dual Strike? They rank second after stormwardens.

So you say that "mini move actions" are only used in the context of immediate actions? And are therefore not a real part of the game, and are a specific rule in that context which trumps a general rule - but only for immediate actions? -- Then my thesis on stealth is wrong.

My statement has nothing to do with the Chameleon power but I say it once more, the Chameleon power works against the triggering enemy and all other enemies during its duration.