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No...that ruling states that DIS works with a double weapon. Nifft was talking about a Staff implement not needing "Staff Fighting" (a feat) to work with DIS.

At this point it doesn't matter much...there is a CS response in the other thread dating a year ago that says it's legal.

I guess I should have clarified. I'm specifically looking at "Properties" of items. Powers are templated differently so I don't feel they make a valid comparison in this case.

I've never claimed they become "double implements". I have always clearly claimed that Staff Fighting says "Treat quarterstaff as a double weapon" and that the sidebar (in the errata) for double weapons says "Wielding a double weapon is like wielding a weapon in each hand." It is "like"...

Sorry about that...was doing it from memory

Find me an example ANYWHERE where they used this phrasing without mentioning a type and I might agree with you. All cases I found were of the phrasing: "An item bonus equal to ..." etc.

Well I'll give you that you're close. All staff implements are Quarterstaves Quarterstaves are part of the Staff weapon group. Therefore Staff Implements are part of the Staff weapon group. Staff Fighting applies to weapons in the Staff Weapon group. Therefore Staff Fighting applies to Staff...

Do you know the reference for this Nifft?

You're playing games with a word that has 2 uses. Mace as a weapon group/category and Mace as a named weapon. I really which they had avoided that nonsense. What is an "attack"? A staff (implement) is both an implement AND a weapon as quoted directly from the PHB errata by me. It...

So by your logic this: and this: are both also "enhancement bonuses" and don't stack. Also all the people in this thread are wrong about said items stacking. By your logic any game element that grants you a bonus based on "enhancement bonus" (the value of) is therefore of the "enhancement...

And there would be some monks that agree with you about not being affected...pretty much at all...by being disarmed. But they are the only such class whose mechanics support it. Oh wait....they're unarmed fighters to begin with aren't they....

The "Staff" weapon group has but ONE weapon in it. Guess what that is. To reiterate: Staff Fighting: You can treat the quarterstaff as a double weapon. PHB Errata: Using an Implement as a Weapon: Most implements cannot be used as weapons. However, an implement like the staff is expressly...

I agree with you about that being cheese and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow it, but consider. Who needs more than one weapon or implement? Two Weapon Ranger (exception - Paired Weapons) Casters (DIS) One Barbarian build (exception - Paired Weapons) A Fighter build (exception - Paired...

Really. That's what you're going to argue. You should try checking your references. Staff (PHB 240) A staff is a shaft... Unlike other implements, a staff also functions as a melee weapon (treat it as a quarterstaff). When used in melee, a staff applies its enhancement bonus and critical...

First, my apologies. I'm not going back to look, but I haven't debated non-magical implements and DIS in at least 2 pages for lack of anyone willing to type the paragraph or two about inherent from DMG2. What we have been debating is if a magical staff + Staff Fighting + DIS works or doesn't...

Every time you say this I'm gonna have to start saying that Two-Weapon Fighting requires you to be wielding two magical weapons. It's really getting old. That is not what the rules text says and you need to stop mis-quoting it. "Wielding an implement in each hand" and "Wielding two magical...

So for what...the 4th time in this thread (starting in post 3 or 4)? I don't own a copy of DMG2 so maybe if someone who does would post the rules blurb on it. Inherent aside, the other debates have been interesting.

What I was trying to point out is that your example is not a valid comparison to the issue at hand. 82 Kilograms is indeed both quantity AND type, but "Enhancement bonus" is not. Either you're talking about the bonus type "enhancement bonus" in which case there is no reference to quantity, OR...

I never said that WEAPON == IMPLEMENT. I said Quarterstaff == WEAPON AND Quarterstaff == IMPLEMENT Based on Staff Fighting you are wielding it in both hands which allows you to now meet the requirement of DIS (wielding an implement in each hand). Where do you disagree?

Yes. Quarterstaff is a weapon. With Staff Fighting you are treated as wielding it in each hand. Quarterstaff is also an implement. Since you are already wielding it in each hand, then you are holding an implement in each hand.