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Agreed. But what I am saying is on the other end. If a GM says "Hey I'm running a $setting game", asks 6 people, and 5 of them say No, then the GM needs to find 3 more people or run a game those 6 people would enjoy. I'm not saying anyone is responsible for anything. The entire thread is...

That's not what I'm proposing. Here's what I am saying, with my cousin's friend group. Larry want to DM. He proposed first idea to the group. Now Larry gets all into his head with his ideas. None of his friends want to play his setting due to the character creation restrictions. Good setting...

Limiting the PC options to an extremely low amount of options without gauging the interests of playing is close to sneak writing on a character sheet. If you are only allowing humans, you are writing human on the sheet of anyone who sits down. They agree to sit down that's on them. But you...

No. What I am saying is a DM can't sneak write info on my character sheet without my permission via bans THEN be upset that I leave because don't want to play one of their limited character concepts. The discussion only exists because people get upset that others don't want to allow or run...

This wouldn't be a discussion if they didn't exist. IF you narrow the game well down from the base options AND don't sell it, you are going to run into people who don't wanna play in it. And many people can't take rejection. I've ran into a couple like that. On the flipside, there are players...

The social contract is that you can't force work on someone that they don't want to do. It's not the DM handing a pregen. The player accepts a pregen. It's not the Player forcing a race in the world. The DM is allowing a race in their world.

The group has to agree. You can be interested or like whatever you want. But if the group doesn't agree to it, you can't do it with that group. An issue is many people don't make these formal agreements openly in their groups. Sometimes they agree to sit down, default to defaults, then...

Agreed No what I am saying is The DM saying they are running a Conan game with human-only PCs and very limited magic and the only available options are human champion fighter, human thief rogue, and human berserker barbarians is as close to the borderline as The Player insisting that the...

Sorcerer is better at Combat Chaos with more cantrips, metamagic, and better weapons. Wizard is slightly better at Planning due to better access to spells but Sorcerer has better plans due to Metamagic.

So I as the player can force the DM to run a setting? No. The DM can't force a Player to play a character. The Player can't force the DM to run a world. Either side can walk. The whole is is when a DM or Player is trying to narrow scopes to the point that they are forcing others to run things...

Nah. All I am saying. The DM chooses the setting they are running. The Players choose the characters they are playing. The DM shouldn't narrow the game down to the point where they are practically creating the PCs without the player's permission. The Players shouldn't force an PC incompatible...

There is kinda The DM chooses the setting they are running. The Players choose the characters they are playing.

As long as the DM allows for enough options that the prayers are still the ones making the choices on character creation. If in the DMs excitement they only allow for Human fighters, thieves, and a nerfed wizard... that is choose to breaking the D&D social contract. If not doing so.

I have a Space D&D game. The races and classes are limited. There are no Dwarves. If you wanted to play Dwarf because you like tough stout warriors, it has the Brown Dragoniods of Kalak 1-5 If you like being Scottish, where Planet Earth has Scotland and New Edinburgh is on Mars. If you...

That part.

Planning: Coming up with a very strong pan and executing it Like the AOE Cloud or Spikes with a buffed Push spell to force a ton of damages running into it Chaos: The opposite of Tactical. Your options are reduced. How strong are your bad options. A caster forced into melee or faced with a...

That overall is due to the community strict restrictions of "sources" to be simple. Barbarian skills and tools are not really the same as Rangers still tools even among people who disagree on what the classes are. ClassWarrior ExpertPriest Mage FighterX Rogue X Cleric X Wizard X...

Unfortunately also many DMs are bad Worldbuilders for RPGs. I always go "For everything you ban, you ought to add something to entice". A big problem with settings since 2e is that many of the nonkitchen sink ones don't have enough to excite every type of player. Ultranarrow settings are...

You did Strategy and Tactics. But what about Planning or Chaos. Combat Planning is when you come to a fight with a your strongest routine of actions. Combat Chaos is when the DM hits you with a shocker, you're on your backfoot, and you have to use your 4th or 5th options or suboptimal features.

I could see many people having their poorly rolled PCs hold the line and be the sacrifice for the PCs that rolled good stats or got some levels. So a level 4 fighter might be standing on the back of 10 dead allies. But from the outside, it looks like the DM killed 50-80% of the PCs with...