D&D 5E (2024) An Optional Counterspell Metagame

[Minigiant]

This sounds more like a minigame than metagame.

I was thinking more to announce the common counterspells at Session Zero

1. Unsummon, Syncopate
2. Counterfire, Counterfrost, Countershock
3. Counterspell, Annul, Counterforce, Counterlight, Counterdark
4. Divertspell
5. Cancel (2024 Counterspell)
6. Unravel (2014 Counterspell)
7. Power Word Counter
8. ???
9. Counterwish

 

[Scribe]

I was thinking more to announce the common counterspells at Session Zero

1. Unsummon, Syncopate
2. Counterfire, Counterfrost, Countershock
3. Counterspell, Annul, Counterforce, Counterlight, Counterdark
4. Divertspell
5. Cancel (2024 Counterspell)
6. Unravel (2014 Counterspell)
7. Power Word Counter
8. ???
9. Counterwish

No no no no no.

The 'here are a bunch of lame narrow counter spells, instead of Counterspell' is not a net benefit.

 

[Savage Wombat]

This was in 3rd edition.

I'd forgotten about that. I don't think my players ever used it.

 

[Minigiant]

No no no no no.

The 'here are a bunch of lame narrow counter spells, instead of Counterspell' is not a net benefit.

Well the idea is that you could research, experience, or gather info of your enemies to prepare the correct counterspells or buy the correct countercharms.

Like the goblins use fire spells but the kobold/dragonborn alliances use lightning spells

Or if you use cold spells and summons but let enemy minions escape, they could tell their forces and their mages will prepare Countercold and Unsummon.

 

[Scribe]

Well the idea is that you could research, experience, or gather info of your enemies to prepare the correct counterspells or buy the correct countercharms.

Like the goblins use fire spells but the kobold/dragonborn alliances use lightning spells

Or if you use cold spells and summons but let enemy minions escape, they could tell their forces and their mages will prepare Countercold and Unsummon.

Yeah, I understand the idea, its the same thing Magic designers tried to push, but its not really great at all.

Those being countered? Doesnt matter how narrow it is, it still sucks for them all the same.
Those doing the countering? Now its just an extra level of annoyance.

5.0 Counterspell was fine, just go back to it.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I'd forgotten about that. I don't think my players ever used it.

Barely anyone did; it was just incredibly niche

1. You had to be facing an enemy who used actual spells
2. You had to have the right spell prepared - given that there were hundreds of spells to choose from this was kind of rare
3. You had to ready an action to counterspell - which means you not only needed to guess which spell they would cast when you were preparing spells, you also had to guess ahead of time that they would be casting it on their next turn
4. The enemy would probably know that you had prepared to counterspell but they choose to cast the spell anyway,
5. All of this had to be more useful than actually casting the spell you had prepared

There was a work-around in that dispel magic could be used to counter any spell (with a check) - this fact and some feats meant that you could build a mage to be a beast at counterspelling, but even that's kind of a niche build by 3e standards.

Point #3 was the real killer though. If it only used your reaction it might have come up more.

 

[nevin]

I've never seen a version of counter spelling that I thought worked in a way that improved the game.
I think a counterspell needs a few things.
1. a way to identify what you are counter spelling. (note this could work for martials as well)
2. a reasonable mechanic for counter spelling. No niche counterspell spells please. The argument it sucks for those being counter spelled is true but the counterspell is giving up on any other option they could do to counterspell. (Should be the same if you let martials counterspell. It should take every single attack the martial has. If you are going to stop a casters full round spell you shouldn't be able to have more attacks after.)
3. it needs to be simple and easy to understand. No algebra ,geometry or checking the book for the million exceptions please.
4. The caster being counter spelled should be able to have some way to hurt the mage counter spelling them if they can roll well enough. If the dice gods are kind maybe even take away an extra round of spell casting from the counter speller. Put some interesting consequences that make it risky and fun to do it. This gives PC's who will probably have better rolls a way to accomplish something even if they are counter spelled. (for example yeah he stopped my meteor swarm but next round no spells for him. or he takes damage or some other unexpected penalty. )